V-12 Engine into 308 Build, over on Grassroots

That doesn't sound cheap Scott? I'm thinking some OEM something I can but for under $150

I do run a 4 rib serpentine with around 150 degrees of wrap on the alternator so that should be good I think

 

Well... Not that cheap..
But given your custom build nature. A hairpin alternator is I think common to Japanese imports. The rpm might be something to look at though.
The 10k+rpm engine we had them build it the same as the drift car ones as they also require high rpm.

 

I see, flat wire vs round and they get some just crazy amps out. I'm thinking 140 should do it it but 150-180 would give me some buffer. For $904 it looks like I could by something bolt-on

https://www.classicretrofit.com/en-us/products/ferrari-308-high-output-175a-alternator

But again, I'm thinking the budget is under $150. I guess get the engine back together then see what (mostly) fits.

 

That's way over priced and that pulley wouldn't support the amperage.

Hats off if you can do it for $150. The amperage and hairpin windings will be doable, it's the bearings and bridge from what I recall that make high rpm more expensive. Stator support is different I believe as well.

 

Hit me with an email, I'm bouncing around the PNW this week and the phone doesn't keep all the email addy handy.. Irritating.

 

I bought a reconditioned 180A denso for $115. It appears to be where the guts for the 175A alternator upgrade come from so I figured worth having a look at
https://www.ebay.com/itm/325111277986

 

I saved my copies of R&T (my favorite mag) and stored (1954-onward)...I got infatuated with the swap turning the V12 into a sidewinder configuration (required a design and machined coupling unit). I bought my '80 308GTBi in June of 1985, and saw the article about Dave Goldsmith's conversion shortly thereafter. His red coupe had BBS wheels...I think Bob Bondurant test drove the car and was impressed with the work, balance and performance (not as much performance difference BUT now by Ferrari and fan standards the car was considered worthy of the Ferrari logo. What surprised me was reading the V12 actually weighed in less than the original V8. All work was A+. I have wondered to this day if it still exists...

 

I saw that article when it came out and someone sent me a copy years ago. A quick google search appears to show the car for sale in germany, just requested the asking price.
https://www.classicdriver.com/en/car/ferrari/308/1977/993617

I saw it was in germany some years ago so that checks out. There is another at merlin in Atlanta, then somewhere there's another 365 conversion and a 400i, then mine is number 5.

 

That car made a lot of buzz here. To many of us it married a beautiful engine a beautiful car...Pollution controls hurt the performance of a solid V8, and I am sure (although I don't know) catalytic converters on the V12 would downgrade the wonderful V12. I went from Arizona to Sebring in 1958 just to the 250 Testa Rosa Ferrari and the sights and sounds are still in my head,,,Especially hearing the shrieking wail of them at night coming down Warehouse straight a braking to enter the right-left Webster turn (drum brakes glowing bright red and sheets of fire coming out out of 4 of those horn shaped exhausts. My buddy drove straight through both way in his brand new '58 Karmann-Ghia (cooler full of water and balogna sandwiches) plus 2 sleeping bags. What a great time we had (although the car and we got to smell pretty ripe at the end).

 

I saw this video a little while back and thought of you.
I’m guessing you already know of this one but just in case, see the video around the 10 minute mark.

Cheers,

Mark

 

Didn't see it, very cool. It looks like posted 3 months ago and says its headed for BaT but its not popped on the 308 BaT thread so not yet I guess. That has to be 365 conversion #3. I'll be curious to see what it sells for. The RHD 400i conversion didn't do well at all, like $40k? in 2017 which seemed low as it was a nice looking car but the 400i injection and stuff looked a but messy vs the 365 setups that look pretty clean and neat. Its always hard to guess the value of any modified car but I like to tell Lana I'm not spending money on the car, I'm investing in the car

 

They are asking €475.000,00 for the goldsmith car. That's quite a number.

 

You're right...While these swaps are cool, little that breaks can be found at NAPA...'nuf said.
John

 

I got the new alternator and it looks really nice, very close in size to the original.

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From there the assessment goes down hill a bit. First its got a clutch on the drive pulley I can't for the life of me understand why? but the fact that it does makes me question changing the pulley. The pulley it has is 6 rib and I run 4, that should be ok though. The bigger concern is the OD is smaller which for sure will help give me more juice at idle but makes me worry a bit more about slippage and over reving at high rpm. I'll need to think on this.

Then there is the plug, it has 4 wires. 3 usually means its a smart voltage regulator and the 3rd is from the ECU to set system voltage, which I guess they do to improve fuel mileage? not sure about a 4th, hopefully its just a ground but I'll need to find a wiring diagram and do a little research to figure out what I need to do to make it work.
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V12 converted F40 hitting the block soon
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I still need to do some moldings and I'm told tile has been ordered for the powder room wall, but I was in the shop for a couple hours tonight figuring out where I left off, and then grinding cylinder shims which is really really boring but at least car work has resumed.
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There is also now a negotiated settlement of car budget, Going forward I get $250/mon no questions asked....its not a lot but its way more than $0

 

I finished the shims up Friday
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Today I separated the engine from the trans and got it on the stand. I looked for the bolts to mount it on the stand for at least 1/2 an hour then lana pulled me to go get molding and while driving I was vaguely remembering tucking something in one of the tubes on the stand...yup, the bolts were in a zip lock tucked neatly into the top tube, right were I'd need them next time so they wouldn't get lost...DOH!
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I've also been thinking about shocks a bit as part of the suspension work I want to do. With my $250/mon budget revalving the shocks is probably next year and AC the not until 2026 but a buddy was working on his and kindly shared his spread sheet which I added 308 stuff to to see where my shocks kind of are with the new springs. And mostly what I've learned is that I don't know a whole lot about setting up shocks...but luckily I don't have any money to mess with them right now and have a year or so to think about it.

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The liners were kind of stuck so I had to pull the crank
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Then knock the liners a bit.....and yuck
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I need to move back onto molding the rest of the day then a night or 2 cleaning stuff before I can start assembling anything but I'm hoping to have it on leak test by next weekend.

 

Police cars have clutches on the alternator pulleys. I recall that from my Phord days.

 

Seems like a lot of corrosion. Are you running straight water?

 

Yeah, it sat with water when I was still doing the leak testing with water, probably from that.

 

Productive evening. The cylinders are all better
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For sure it was from letting it sit after a failed leak test, you can see where the water level sat....another reason air makes for better leak tests.
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I also blasted most of the rust out of/off of the block. Still needs a little final cleanup but nearly ready to start reassembly.
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ping pong back to shocks. I know many are running QA1 shocks including a buddy of mine who said 6/4 front rear on the clicks and shared the graph from the QA1 manual, this is the newer 18 click version so it looks like the red line is 0, so the blue and green line are likely 3 and 6 click respectively. the 6/4 was were is started to get harsh. I did a search and people with the older 12 click version were saying 4 clicks is harsh, so % wise about the same. His other comment was it also felt loose over anything

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What really caught my eye here that rebound is nearly the same as compression. OEMs like about 1:3 ratio comp:rebound and my current shocks are just that as were the OEM konis which are also show on my graphs. That is a compromise for street use to let the bump move the wheel easily to make the ride feel softer but they jack up the rebound that you really don't feel as easily to help settle things. On the oem konis with the oem springs the average damping is exactly critical, meaning the system will settle with no additional oscillation.
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The shop I bought them front basically said, you're not hating anything about the ride use they kept the compassion about stock and added more rebound to better control the stiffer springs. I am feeling more damping would be better and was thinking 20-50% more compression. The QA1 green line is just about exactly where I am now on compression so Ik could probably double what I currently have and now hate it as that would put me right about the QA1 blue 6 click line.

Rebound wise though, I'm already on the QA1 blue line at 1in/min, 0-2in/min is generally considered low speed damping, and the transition knee is usually right around 1in/min so by 2 its fully into the highspeed damping behavior. Low speed is small bumps like highway joints and and the pitch/roll/dive from driver inputs....so to make the car feel responsive you want to add low speed damping, but that will also make it feel every bump aka harsh. The high speed range is big bumps, track curbing and such and I'm at near full or nearly so on my current shocks with the new 800/500 springs and that feels ok.

So my thought for when shock make the top of the list is to ask for more like 50-80% more compression then maybe center up the rebound so full range currently closer to centered....but I still want to play with the spread sheet a bit more and see where the average damping is compared to critical damping...that seems importantish I can't just add lots of rebound as then the suspension won't actually rebound very well. I'm also still a little confused about preload...it doesn't play any roll in oscillation but does does change the spring force relative to the shock force....so I'm pretty sure less preload means it won't like being over the critical damping numbers as much on rebound as low spring rate high preload OEM setup will tolerate. I need to think on that a bit more.

 

I tweeked my back somehow the other day so progress is slow (and why I was playing with shock curves) but the liners are back in the block. I set the shims in place with a dab of hylomar (finally found a good use for the stuff)
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Liners in
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Lowest
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Tallest

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Today the heads go on, after my son wakes about and I can corral him out in the shop to give me a hand lifting it so I don't make my back feel any worse.....or maybe I'll use the crane so Io don't need to wait until noon

 

Heads are on and the engine baking
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The teenager suggested this looked like an outside project and brought me a hose.