2024 Belgian GP: Post Race Analysis | FerrariChat

2024 Belgian GP: Post Race Analysis

Discussion in 'F1' started by SS454, Jul 28, 2024.

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  1. SS454

    SS454 Formula 3

    Oct 28, 2021
    2,039
    Full Name:
    Chris S
    Not the most exciting race. Going into the race it looked like 4 teams had a shot, but extreme tire wear meant major tire management. 8 car DRS train meant no action on the straights. With the top 4 teams being separated by just a few tenths, there isn't enough delta to pass on pace.

    Mercedes very bitter sweet. George finally made a ballsy call that paid off. He was kind of set up to try the 1 stop but he did a brilliant job making it work. Hats off to Mercedes for letting their drivers race. Full lynch mob on Mercedes for once again screwing George out of a win. Car being found under weight is an easy DQ. One would assume Lewis' car would be identical, perhaps George lost more body weight during the race. I'm sure many will wonder what Lewis' post race weight was. Hamilton was a star during the race. The Mercedes may have actually been the 2nd fastest car. Track position was everything and Lewis ran his race beautifully and deserved to be the winner in the end. Mercedes have by far been the best team over the last few weeks.

    McLaren looked like they had the pace to win, but just never had the track position to exploit it. Once Oscar got clean air he was much faster than everyone. As soon as he caught up to Hamilton, his pace suffered immediately. Lando kind of the same story. Once again he had a terrible start that hurt his race immensely. He desperately needs to improve his starts. McLaren are truly wasting their advantage that could be all but gone now that Mercedes is on top form. Bad strategies and mistakes from the drivers have been extremely costly. They've had a car that could win most of the last 6-8 races, and they have won just 1.

    Ferrari didn't help themselves today. It was completely expected that Leclerc would drop back. That is his MO, but the Ferrari was never going to be fast enough to win. However we saw being the fastest wasn't necessary to win. Ferrari had the best tire strategy in the stable but maybe didn't utilize them the best. Slow pitstop at a critical time for Leclerc didn't help. Similar story on Sainz's side. Honestly the car was just too slow to fight up front.

    Red Bull had the 3rd best car with Max, and the 4th best with Perez. Their choice to run the high downforce setup was good for a wet quali but hurt them in a dry race. A very solid drive from Max, his pace was as good as the leaders when it clean air. Thought he would make a move on Leclerc at the end but just couldn't get a run on him. The fact he extended his lead on Norris has to be considered a successful day. Perez looked like Perez. To go from 2nd to 8th is a terrible result. Sure the team didn't help him with strategy at all, but he was slow from the drop of the green flag.

    Aston Martin might have only been the 6th best team. Alonso just maximized what the car was capable of doing. Even if they were 5th best, they are a long way off of the top 4. This means 1 or 2 points is all they can fight for right now. Stroll was never in a shot for points, but I'm impressed he held off Albon with tires that were completely shot.

    Alpine had what looked like an incredible livery. Reality it was completely bare carbon with a red nose and a few stickers. Either way it looked damn good from a distance. Big updates and the car looked pretty strong. That must give them confidence since Spa is a power track and their PU sucks. A good drive to score the final point from Ocon. Not really sure why Gasly ended up so far back from his teammate.

    RB were stuck in the second DRS train along with others and also didn't have any way to move up. A strong performance from Ricciardo with nothing to show for it. Yuki had a rough race to say the least.

    Williams were okay on a track that suits their car. Not good enough for points. What does it say when Albon can't get passed Stroll on dead tires running 1:50s. Logan finishing ahead of Hulk... he must be proud of himself.

    Haas looked pretty terrible. I think they split the setups on the cars and neither looked good in the race. The high speed, high top speed tracks don't seem to be their strong suit.

    Sauber looked even worse than Haas. But it's hard to say since the drivers couldn't push the tires or make any passes.

    Driver of the Day: Since George drove a car that was under weight, he gets excluded. So Lewis Hamilton. Very clean start, a good pass on Leclerc. Built a lead to keep anyone out of DRS, protected his tires. Did everything right.
     
  2. watt

    watt Formula 3

    Jun 17, 2004
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    Northern Rocky Mountains
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    Giuseppe T Hemingway
    #2 watt, Jul 28, 2024
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2024
    there does seem some evidence that the extra wear on George's tyres may account for some weight loss [horner estimated a kg, but that means fuel was light as well], but he showed creativity as well as great skills regardless!!!! lewee drove as superb race too.
     
  3. Phil~

    Phil~ F1 Rookie
    Rossa Subscribed

    Aug 25, 2013
    3,935
    Potomac, Maryland
    Norris has been a disappointment. If Max were in that McLaren a win was on the table. His starts are atrocious. Why even qualify high? He will lose places at the start, guaranteed.
     
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  4. subirg

    subirg F1 Rookie

    Dec 19, 2003
    4,352
    Cheshire
    Will Perez be back after the summer break? I doubt it…
     
  5. SimCity3

    SimCity3 F1 Rookie


    the entire post race "picking up marbles" has always been a loophole on weight legality. FIA needs complete review IMHO
     
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  6. DF1

    DF1 Two Time F1 World Champ

    No-- the teams agree'd to this completely.
     
  7. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Jun 3, 2006
    27,305
    Yep, the outcome of races is dictated by tyre issues, well disused rubber in this case.
     
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  8. JWeiss

    JWeiss F1 World Champ
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    Nov 18, 2010
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    Fuel light? Wasn’t it made clear that the car must meet minimum weight AFTER being completely drained of fuel?

    I don’t think fuel had anything to do with the DQ. It was about tire wear (and possibly clag collection) that was mis-estimated by the team.
     
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  9. bobzdar

    bobzdar F1 Veteran

    Sep 22, 2008
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    Plenty of clag on the outside of t1 that George could have picked up but he probably was not thinking about that at all, unfortunately. Bet he won't do that again but he could have avoided this by picking that up. I watched the replay of the finish and he took the normal line, also his tires were almost completely clean when he pulled in so he flat out made a mistake there that cost him a race and Merc a 1-2. Great drive by both Merc drivers, though. Leclerc dragging his car up tbh, it's not a pole or race win contending car but he put it in the mix this week. Seems like Ferrari always has one stint where they don't use the tires properly, and it was the final stint for Leclerc. He was within a couple of seconds of Hamilton the entire race until the final stint.
     
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  10. watt

    watt Formula 3

    Jun 17, 2004
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    Giuseppe T Hemingway
    Fuel is drained only for sample
     
  11. Mitch Alsup

    Mitch Alsup F1 Veteran

    Nov 4, 2003
    9,635
    I suspect that Russell used more fuel (than Lewis) trying to keep in front of Lewis for the last 10 laps.

    Sad to see he could not pick up enough clag on the in-lap to make weight.
     
  12. SS454

    SS454 Formula 3

    Oct 28, 2021
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    Minimum weight is with driver and does NOT include fuel. By the rules there is no excuse to run the cars below minimum weight. Technically it is illegal. Obviously teams are going to run as close as possible if not below and calculate for slag pick up post race. But Spa never has a full cool down lap so teams should have factored this in. Surely we can assume Hamilton's car started the race at the same weight and he didn't pick up any rubber after the checkered flag either. The only variables would be body weight (drivers lose a lot of water weight in a race) and a slight difference in tire wear.
     
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  13. JWeiss

    JWeiss F1 World Champ
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    I don’t think that is correct.

    They’re required to have at least a liter of fuel left for the sample. If you have less than that, there’s a penalty.

    However, this has nothing to do with the weight requirement. Weight is measured without fuel.

    Otherwise, there would have been no shenanigans involved with Mercedes first weighing the car (and meeting the minimum weight requirement) with fuel still on board.
     
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  14. JWeiss

    JWeiss F1 World Champ
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    I wonder about the driver weight thing. They start the race with driver plus driver ballast equal to 80kg (assuming driver is below 80). Is this 80kg min requirement separate from, or included in the car total weight? I believe it’s separate.

    They weigh the driver after the race. I’m not sure what this is for. Is it added back to the car total weight for the minimum requirement?

    Driver sweating would at least somewhat go into the race suit (still part of the driver) and the seat. Weight loss would only come from evaporation.

    And what about the drinks? This starts in the car, but then goes into the driver, and then is sweated out into the suit, car, or atmosphere. So, would a driver drinking less help with the weight of the car at the end of the race?
     
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  15. SS454

    SS454 Formula 3

    Oct 28, 2021
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    I believe the 80 kg is a calculated figure at a fixed point (driver seat). Obviously some drivers are more than 80kg. In fact I would say most drivers aren't even close to that weight. 80 kg = 176 lbs. Yuki might be 140 pounds. So they ballast the car below the drivers seat to make up the difference. Good question on how they factor in the transfer of drink water which is part of the car's weight pre race, and then part of the driver weight post race. I do think there is a decent amount of evaporation given the cockpits are typically 100F or more, combined with the wind factor of open cockpits.

    Then we must ask how stingy are the post race checks. They already do not check every single car with a full inspection. Crazy as that seems. As far as I know, they just take a 1L sample of fuel post race. I haven't heard that they drain each and every car of all fuel. Perhaps there is a level of acceptance as long as the car is driving above the minimum weight at all times in the race (factoring in the 1L post race sample). While there could be some minor tricks being played with weight distribution and center of gravity when it comes to weight from ballast, fuel or drink water, perhaps the inspections just need to show the car is 799.5 kg or higher.
     
  16. SimCity3

    SimCity3 F1 Rookie

    Yep, it's a shame that it all comes down to Rubber management
     
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  17. JSBMD

    JSBMD Formula Junior

    Mar 17, 2007
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    I agree that water is lost from bottle to driver to suit and seat. But that water is weighed the same regardless of location, so net zero change in weight due to water drunk/sweated/peed.

    As for tire wear, most definitely this is enough to make a car underweight. Especially as George was the only one who made 1-stop work. Mercedes should have been acutely aware how close they were running to minimum weight, so they would have known he was at risk of DQ. Therefore Mercedes pit wall should have reminded George about the importance of clag collection after the checkered flag. And this is especially true at Spa, where they don't complete a cool-down lap; he should have crossed the line and headed to the dirty side of the track to pick up what he could of the rubber. Might have salvaged that hard-earned win... Shame for George's hard work.
     
  18. SS454

    SS454 Formula 3

    Oct 28, 2021
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    Alonso made a 1 stop work
     
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  19. ZeptoLira

    ZeptoLira Rookie

    Dec 8, 2020
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    3opah
    Agree with confirming info above that car minimum weight is -ultimately- without fuel. From a different news sources, I read that GR car was weighed with and without fuel. With fuel he was at the minimum. I speculate that stewards weigh with fuel because it is easy to do. Also, GR car weighed on two different scales. Supposedly, Toto said that engineers analyzed at some point during the race that GR would finish 5th with a second tire stop or..... finish 5th without a second tire stop. GR liked the no second stop option and went for it. Toto was 'surprised' at his ability to hold onto first. Now, we know why. Agree with all the miscues especially by GR on the cool down last 100 meters. Also, possible that MB reversed so many changes after FP, that someone did not check the weight box. SF should take notes here - that all boxes should be checked (which was done) when drastic changes are quickly made. Charles was close, but last tire change did not work so well.
     

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