Haha - I'm not sure what this proves except that the design is divisive. Clearly you and I react to this photo very differently. And that's OK! Neither of us are "right" - it's entirely subjective, as you say.
I was the OP on this thread 10306 posts ago. I really like the 12C and I voting with my wallet. I am going with a Coupe as I cannot possibly part with my 812 GTS. Image Unavailable, Please Login
In 1976 too. They won the WCC, which is the most important of the two for the team. The V12 sounds glorious, even with the PPF and the noise regulations apply irrespective. Even the Revuelto that doesn't have a PPF has a dB limit by which it has to abide. Unlike other manufacturers (i.e. BMW) Ferrari doesn't utilise speakers that play fake sound. It is just the engine noise, brought closer to the cabin; nothing fake about that.
When he was still under the guidance of Luca di Montezemolo and was not yet trying to reinvent the wheel, Manzoni managed to create this evolution which is a timeless design.
Didn’t say Ferrari did it. I’m talking generally regarding what the trend has been out there. I think will happen though.
Yes, an evolution of a beautiful Pininfarina baseline design - and as you say, under the oversight of LDM.
I use my 812 SF as a daily for longer distances so I’m really happy replacing it by the 12 Cilindri BECAUSE of the bigger displays and the lower trunk sill. It will be easier to handle navigation/music and to load my bike with a bigger opening of the trunk. The tdf is a piece of art but not the right one for what I need and for track use I prefer the Pista. Different strokes for different folks. Gesendet von iPad mit FerrariChat
Erode the base of serious buyers based on what you personally perceive as non-masculine design. The debate around 812 vs F12 proved that there is no consensus in terms of preferred design language (elegance vs aggressive), within the Ferrari community. Do you have proof that Ferrari customers that prefer masculine designs are more valuable than those that prefer elegant designs? Heck, I’m not sure we could even get agreement on what is masculine design. If Ferrari stops designing cars that you believe aren’t masculine enough for you, then don’t buy them. As I mentioned previously some will rotate out of the brand quietly and others will go kicking and screaming believing that they personally were the reason for Ferrari’s success. Whether one likes masculine or elegant Ferrari designs, divorce from the brand is usually painful and emotional - which means “Ferrari the business” is very healthy! Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat.com mobile app
Just so I know what is meant by “masculine” or “feminine” design, which category does the P80/C fall into? To me eye, this is the best modern Ferrari design. It’s the design language that I wish Ferrari would have selected for the SF90 category. Image Unavailable, Please Login
So elegance is not a masculine attribute? I think I no longer can understand this post with as many random complaints.
If LDM takes the credit for Manzoni designs you like, why does that same principle not apply for Manzoni designs you don’t like? Seems to me the chief designer still drew and/or approved the lines to be signed off by the board so gets the credit. Pininfarina gets the credit for 458 despite LDM famously sending them back to the drawing board when they first proposed a design with prominent side intakes like the 430.
And they say money doesn’t buy happiness… [emoji1316][emoji23] Imho, Manzoni is capable of some absolutely beautiful designs, especially on the over $1 million models. The SP1/2, SP3, and some of the one-offs. The gorgeous manner in which the seats fit into the buttress wells is FAR prettier on the 812 Comp A than the GTS. The Pista is an example of a beautiful design on a less expensive model, but his best work seems reserved for the higher end models. Maybe he’s clashing with the bean counters? The draconian Euro regs may also contribute. Easier to stick to your original design on a track-only model.
I completely agree. It's hard to know exactly how to attribute credit, but I like most of the designs that have been launched under his watch and love some of them (including the Iconas, as you mention). I'm a bit concerned about the direction going forward, but I don't have issues with the back catalog personally.
This Ferrari design is superior to anything else done in the last five years but it presents a very narrow focus. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Modern designs by their very existence won't please everyone. They are done with a specific focus some won't like... Image Unavailable, Please Login In his own hand > Image Unavailable, Please Login
I have already paraphrased him several times here on FerrariChat and therefore I run the risk of becoming repetitive. For me, Rosario Scelsi's reflection on Flavio Manzoni's designs vs Pininfarina’s explain why some of us have no empathy with some of his designs. These are just a few excerpts from Scelci’s reflection “The impression is that the Sardinian designer has impulses of great genius, but that he is not always able to match them perfectly, as Pininfarina did. In the cars designed by him, the details are impeccable, but the overall view is sometimes disturbed by something, by a discordant note. If with Pininfarina there were no doubts about the fact that the next "red" would immediately enter the heart for its style, with Manzoni there is great anxiety every time and nothing can be taken for granted." “Having reached this point, the time has come for conclusions. For me Pininfarina is unattainable, but I grew up with the myth of the Testarossas and F40s and this, perhaps, influences my judgement. Flavio Manzoni, for his part, is great and has visions that go beyond the common standard. He is certainly a champion, who takes meticulous care of even the smallest details, but in putting together the individual excellences of his proposals he sometimes loses the overall vision and this can be seen in the frequent presence of something that breaks the dialectical fluidity and coherence of the lexicon. Maybe it's something refined and desired, but I prefer a less troubled stylistic cut. It must be said that the performance evolution of modern Ferraris has made the specific weight of the aerodynamic and functional aspects increasingly higher, with repercussions on the purity and harmony of the style. Manzoni has to deal with these aspects more than Pininfarina. Then there are also the tastes of emerging markets, but it is a motivation that I do not find strong, because art must not bend to fashions and markets but must set trends and educate markets in the cult of beauty. “
High Lingo but certainly some salient points contained within Rosario Scelsi's treatise on the works of designer Flavio Manzoni. Still, someone who would be seen in a silver 288 GTO or a yellow F40 has some questionable standards; just kidding, a little bit...
P80/C is 100% masculine design and more importantly … it is race car inspired design, which is important because racing is the essence of Ferrari as a brand and a company. It’s ok if they make one GT model in their lineup with soft feminine elegant design for the beta types ( Roma for example ) but everything else should be race inspired not elegance inspired, even the regular production cars. This is Ferrrari not Jaguar.
