Ferrari Sport Cars Thread | Page 64 | FerrariChat

Ferrari Sport Cars Thread

Discussion in 'Vintage (thru 365 GTC4)' started by Aardy, Feb 12, 2023.

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  1. Sempre_gilles

    Sempre_gilles Formula 3

    Jul 11, 2003
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    Many thanks! The same issue of Auto Italiana should have the results of the 1° Borzonasca - La Squazza hillclimb. Can you check that as well please?
     
  2. kare

    kare F1 Rookie
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    It may be impossible to find out what kind of agreement lead to Casini racing 0270MM in June 1954 already. I still presume the car was returned to factory, perhaps on procura, then maybe leased to Casini and official ownership eventually transferred later on. Don't really care as I find it much more important to identify cars one by one in various races. I also think that spreading disinformarmation and creating more confusion should be avoided, sorting these things out is hard enough already and that's what this thread is all about. Well done!
     
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  3. merstheman

    merstheman F1 Rookie

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    It may be impossible to ascertain ownership of the car in period, but it may also not be, as we have members of this forum who possess documents and information which may help me to figure this out.

    Henrique Casini was a veteran racer by 1954, and also a successful businessman in Brazil who could easily have afforded to buy the car. The pictures I posted from 1955 show the car with Brazilian license plates, which furthers my belief that the car was owned by him, as opposed to the ACB (Automóvel Clube do Brasil) which would import some of these race cars for other drivers back then - Landi most of all. The possibility that Casini did not own the car is interesting to me, because at that time the factory (and the ACB) only really rated Chico Landi as an "ace" racing driver, and so would afford him with occasional drives in cars not owned by him - the same was not usual of Henrique Casini and other period Brazilian drivers from the early 50's.

    Again, my interest as a participant in this thread limits itself to Brazilian races and racers at the time. For the rest of the time I am a thankful observer only. It is not my intention to spread disinformation, but to try and find out more about an underdocumented period in Brazilian motor sport.
     
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  4. Aardy

    Aardy F1 Veteran
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    I think what Kare meant is that in trying too hard to deduce the history of cars from registration papers, we sometimes forget the importance of photos and deduction. Some would say speculation...:)
    Casini's Ferrari is a good example. Not 0270MM with the papers but definitively yes with the pictures...;)
     
  5. kare

    kare F1 Rookie
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    Owning should be defined. We don't know what type of contract Carini had and with whom and as already said transferring registeration from another coutry (Free state of Trieste) may also have been complicated.
     
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  6. bs76

    bs76 Formula Junior

    Mar 6, 2005
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    Yes, Borzonasca - La Squazza, 08.08.1954:
    only 1 Ferrari entry:
    Ferrari 3.000 / Camillo Luglio / 2. IC Sport Internazionale
    (winner: Piero Valenzano with Maerati 2000)

    best wishes,
    BjörnS
     
  7. Aardy

    Aardy F1 Veteran
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  8. Aardy

    Aardy F1 Veteran
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    #1583 Aardy, Aug 14, 2024
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2024
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    15 August 1954, Zandvoort International, Netherlands

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    #23 500 Mondial Pinin Farina Spyder 0434MD Herman Roosdorp Raced (5th in class)
    #24 500 Mondial Scaglietti Spyder 0454MD Bob Said DNF (clutch)
    #40 225 S Vignale Coupe 0170ET Jan Bos-Eyssen Raced (3rd in class)
    #45 250 Monza Pinin Farina Spyder 0420M Joke Maasland DNF (crash)

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    Start of the Sport +2000cc race with 0170ET and 0420M.

    Winner : Jaguar C-type Ninian Sanderson

    More pics :
    https://www.racingsportscars.com/photo/1954/Zandvoort-1954-08-15a-024.jpg
    https://www.tomhartleyjnr.com/fr/car/stock/1954/ferrari/500-mondial-scaglietti/ferrari-500-mondial-scaglietti-2/
    https://klemcoll.wordpress.com/2019/12/29/a-little-ferrari/
    https://forums.autosport.com/topic/201106-ecurie-francorchamps-roger-laurent-c-type-jaguar/
    https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?search=Zandvoort+circuit+in+1954.+&title=Special:MediaSearch&go=Go&type=image
     
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  9. Aardy

    Aardy F1 Veteran
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    #1584 Aardy, Aug 15, 2024
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2024
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  10. Aardy

    Aardy F1 Veteran
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  11. Sempre_gilles

    Sempre_gilles Formula 3

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    Additional info: there were two heats. Joke Maasland was 2nd in heat 1 but crashed heavily in heat 2.
    Jan Bos Eijssen finished 3rd in heat 1 but DNF in heat 2 (stopped after witnessing incident of Joke Maasland). His aggregated result is 7th.

    About Bob Said: he qualified 2nd in class B (1501-2000cc). Perhaps the picture of the Start of the Sport 2000 cc race was heat 2?
     
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  12. Aardy

    Aardy F1 Veteran
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    Yes, that would make sense. Many thanks for your help.
     
  13. JAM1

    JAM1 F1 Veteran
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    Have to agree. A couple of other photos with Said in them include a Lotus Mk VIII and that car doesn’t appear in the grid photos either so he also must have been out for heat 2 as well.

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  14. Aardy

    Aardy F1 Veteran
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    Good catch ! Thanks ! ;)
     
  15. Aardy

    Aardy F1 Veteran
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  16. JAM1

    JAM1 F1 Veteran
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    From this Revs institute photo it appears that badge had been changed for the rectangle version (plus an Cavalino and side number light) only 7 months later when it raced the 12 hours of Sebring.

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  17. Aardy

    Aardy F1 Veteran
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  18. ursoenzo

    ursoenzo Formula 3

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  19. Aardy

    Aardy F1 Veteran
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  20. Aardy

    Aardy F1 Veteran
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  21. kare

    kare F1 Rookie
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    Standard practise to use a badge only was introduced for 1955 production. Maybe they were trying out different approaches thinking that a fancy chrome text appearing in nice composition with a chrome strip looked particularly good on a car that was going to be displayed in Brussels. Those sent to Carrera Panamericana had a longer chrome strip running over the vent + a brand new Scaglietti-badge.
     
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  22. readplays

    readplays F1 Rookie

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    0050 (0328)
    At least I think that’s how they write it/- the original 0050 (‘real’) being a touring barchetta.
     
  23. Aardy

    Aardy F1 Veteran
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    Here is the second Scaglietti & C. badge used in late 1954 at least on 0464MD, 0468MD and 0470MD and in 1955 (except 0492M).
    Also probably on 0462MD but the only pics I have show the car already repainted in green with yellow nose and the alloy bar and the Scaglietti badge already removed...
     
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  24. kare

    kare F1 Rookie
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    As fas as I know this car has nothing to do with serial number 0328.

    0328/M was a 166MM/53 Vignale Spider sold to Rubirosa. He gave 166MM 0050/M as a trade and for a reason or another his new ride was renumbered to carry that number. 166MM 0050/M was renumbered respectively into 0328/M and sold to USA. Later 0328/M was renumbered as 0308/M, maybe it was easier to sell it with a number reflecting what it really was - and the dated serial number 0050/M was transferred to 0308/M, a 166 MM/53 Berlinetta reduced to a bare frame and serving as a development car.

    For many years I've critiziced numbering techniques that cannot be interpreted without secret knowledge and therefore choose to call the development car as 0050M/ex-0308M, which clearly reads "Serial number 0050/M, former 0308/M".
     
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  25. Aardy

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