Monterey auction thread (the '24 edition)

Replacement engine but nice car and a significant example. Even with the engine swap I’d have expected a higher number.

 

Yes, a Bacchelli & Villa built correct PF body built in the early 90s. Says the previous De Dion rear axle also included. The matching numbers engine rebuilt by Patrick Ottis. Sold for $2,810,000 all in.

 

My final thought before retiring for the night is that for someone like me, who has always wanted a 60's V12 Ferrari but never been able to time my having the excess cash with an affordable market, things are looking up!

Have a good night all.

 

Good morning!
My thoughts waking up the day after:

The results from the past couple days are neither surprising, nor are they particularely good or bad, when you look beyond the big tickets that didn't sell.
We see stable prices in benchmark cars such as 300 SLs in both guises, that we were seemingly not affected much by a major turmoil revolving around one of the type specialists.
We see stable prices with benchmark cars like a Dino 246 GT or GTS, while Daytonas even seem to be recovering from their vale of tears.
We see strong results on early Porsche cars, especially Speedsters.
We see that even with models and marques that have really taken a heavy beating in recent times, like all thing Maserati, that outstanding examples like that one 4.7 Ghibli sell for strong money.

We have a decade of zero and negative interest rates all over the globe behind us, when especially in the earlier years many were looking for investment opportunities outside the financial markets. If anyone thought that the price development we have seen in 2014 to 2016 was sustainable or that the interest policy was going to last, please take some more classes in economics. Apparently many did looking at the fall of all those real estate heroes over here.

Dealers and auction houses were happily catering to a small clientele willing to spend millions and millions of Dollars and Euros that were literally at disposal. It seems that no one ever thought about the day after, neither the buyers nor the auction houses.

The market was driven by a handful of protagonists in those years and some have as of recently decided to sell their investments for various reasons. There were never hundreds of buyers around battling for double-digit million dollar Ferraris. Two SWB California Spiders are seemingly one too many for the number of buyers today. Same goes for the numbers of SWB Berlinettas and even GTOs looking to find new homes. Apparently at least some of those looking to sell are doing so accepting more or less heavy losses. The others are those that are now taking their cars home with them unsold.

We certainly see a generational shift that affects cars from certain periods. But where are those past results of 375 Americas or 212 and 250 coachbuilt cars that justify today's estimates and reserves? Same for the sports racers that often come out of rather long-term ownership and need real enthusiasts these days, not bank-fueled investores looking to flip a coin.

The return of the interest rates - I personally wouldn't call them high - also affects those modern hypercars. It seemed all too easy to just borrow some money for nothing, buy the next limited ultra-, hyper-, whatever-thing, let it sit for two years and then cash in on the delivery mileage car-like sculpture. Anyone surprised that the this business model doesn‘t work out anymore now that borrowing money actually costs some? Equally, creating a niche market for these buyers like the Turbollection tried to seemingly failed. Here at the local F-car dealership 90+% of new cars were leased, many to real estate guys, that are now looking to sell. Another surprise? Not really…

Do we see a market correction? Yes, for those who were playing with deep pockets in years long gone by, not for those who appreciate high quality and have a great passion for their toys.

I'm just had my first test drive in an open sports car built in the winter of 1949/1950 and I couldn't care less for what just happened in Pebble Beach.

More thoughts might follow.

 

RMSotheby's is clearly head and shoulders above the rest. While I hold Gooding in high regard they really blew it here, they need a reboot. Talent heavy Broad Arrow is still trying to find its way(in year 3). Bonhams appears to be circling the drain.
My 2 cents.

 

I love Marcel, but saying production numbers are the issue for Boxers is not the best analysis. Dinos were made in larger quantities and they sell for double to triple Boxers.

There has to way more than numbers. I owned one, loved it and drove it for 15K miles over almost 9 years. They are cars not to be driven lazily. They require more attention, good or bad. But saying it's a numbers game is ridiculous IMO. Especially as they made 10s of thousands of 308s 355s, 360s, 458s, ect.

More people don't care about them or like them and those that do have no money to purchase them. They are very often thought to be a 308 by the unknowing. I had both and know that from expierience.

I never in my whole life growing up in Long Island and the TriState area, which encompasses very affluent areas, saw one on the road prior to buying one in 2013. Just one at a show and it was Buzzs car from fchat.

 

Younger buyers entering the market? Only because some of these tech wizzes and influencers have more money. The more disposable income any group has to invest the more likely you'll invest in a classic car. That fact that so many cars with delivery miles sold at abnormally high amounts show people have no intention in driving these. They'll buy it, stick it away, and bring it out 4 years later to collect the profit. Honestly if you look at the prices of pre-war cars its pretty disappointing. They want a 96 911 with a big wing and 19 miles.

Its not for me but I guess I'm a dinosaur.

 

As throughout my adult life, I just HOPE values of some older vintage, 60+ y.o. cars CRASH, DEEP and HARD, so I might have a chance to own & drive the wheels off some I've always dreamt of.
I couldn't care less what happens to prices/values of cars I have no interest in owning, but then again, I've never been a vintage car "market" lemming, speculator or pretending to identify as one.

 

The market on 60’s Ferraris shot up too quick from 2009 to 2014. Not sure why. In 2009 you could buy a super nice long nose 275gtb for 600k, then five years later over 3M.

 

I was astonished by the price achieved by the Countach 25th Anniv. at RM. It sold for more money than the first 365 GTC. Probably an outlier but I do think it might signal generational change in preferences.

I'm 35 and would have taken the GTC any day of the week. But now I'm thinking I might be an outlier too.

 

I think I would rather have a very nice 330 GTS for that money...but I can't appreciate the driving difference between the two. Bigger engines are often a big improvement...

 

...and Mecum is always a big question mark. Especially for vintage Ferraris. They are all too willing to peddle anything...regardless of quality. Amusing hucksters at best...

 

beauty(dino) vs brawn(boxer), beauty wins every time.
same goes for 275gtb vs daytona.

 

Due diligence is not part of their selection process. This is not to say that they haven't sold some remarkable Ferrari, but caveat emptor.

 

No, no, no. Dino is very pretty. Boxer is beautiful and sophisticated. I absolutely love Dinos and is one of my very favourite cars but a Boxer is in a different much higher league. Logic doesn't seem to prevail here.

 

when beauty is a factor all logic goes out the window with men

 

But a Dino is not as beautiful as a Boxer. A Dino is pretty in a junior sort of way. Boxer is beautiful in a grown up fully blossomed way and double the power and cylinders. Must be not that many people have actually seen a Boxer in the flesh. They are gorgeous and are > than a Dino.

 

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

 

I wouldn't want to rank auction houses against each other. I strongly believe that at the right price it doesn't matter when or where an auction takes place in today's world. It could be Christmas Day, somewhere in the middle of nowhere. The whole car world would be watching online...

That being said, it does certainly matter what numbers you put on the cars: Looking at their estimates Gooding certainly went overboard on the top-tier F-cars, whereas RM did the same with their Turbollection. As different as those might be, what they have in common is that there are no real comparables. Some were just way out there, or did anyone really expect the Birdcage to sell anywhere near that estimate? Looking at their London auction estimate, I expect a tough day for Charlie Ross.

The crucial point these days is to manage seller's expectations. I suspect that some of those that are now taking their cars home, would rather take to money today and run. In the end the market is always right...

 

Let us all remember--When they say "High Bid was "----there may not have been ANY bidding at all.

Ken Goldman

 

Case in point, there seemed to be online and phone bidders for most of the big lots last night at RM, if not all. Certainly for the SWB Cal Spider

 

Nowhere to really post this in the F1 subforum so will do it here, but any ideas why F2001b s/n 215 was pulled from auction this week? Last year it was up for sale at Monterey via sealed bid, but this year regular auction bidding with $8-10mm est and then pulled without reason publicly.

 

Then, there will be too many cars to buy... what a dilemma

And if that happens, it is kinda the end, like nuclear ...

Regards, Alberto

 

Ahhh, what would happen if we all liked brunettes? What would the blondes, etc. do?
What a troubled world this would be...so many nuns...

I have seen and driven both. Tomato, Tomatoe...

 

I agree, Dinos are an all-time favorite of mine. Chased them in 98 for 6 months, gave up bought a concour 65 XKE OTS. Then went looking again in 01 but bought a 308QVwhich sort of fell in my lap. That's my point, its not numbers. Just number that want one. But as a driving expierience I never will regret having a 308 and a Boxer over owning a Dino. But if someone leaves me one in their will, I'll be delighted.