Monterey auction thread (the '24 edition) | Page 11 | FerrariChat

Monterey auction thread (the '24 edition)

Discussion in 'Vintage Ferrari Market' started by Timmmmmmmmmmy, May 21, 2024.

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, Skimlinks, and others.

  1. 375+

    375+ F1 World Champ Silver Subscribed

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2005
    Messages:
    13,651
    That is chicken ****;)
     
    readplays likes this.
  2. Zanny1

    Zanny1 Formula 3 Silver Subscribed

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2003
    Messages:
    1,134
    Location:
    Arizona
    Full Name:
    Mike
    All good points. Apparently. 190K was a good price for this car. IMHO Silver/gray looks good on C4's but of course that is subjective. Market is pretty soft on these cars and it's easy to drop some big $ on them making them right. Originality, regardless of condition, was what caught my eye.
     
    SCantera, readplays and Nembo1777 like this.
  3. ersatzS2

    ersatzS2 Formula Junior

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2009
    Messages:
    862
    Location:
    Norfolk VA
    Interesting data, not sure what to make of it, but would others agree with my sense that while yes, RM outperformed Gooding on every metric, the data suggests estimates were high everywhere, and the no-sales reflect a gap in seller/buyer expectations. Further, on the whole, it seems like Gooding fielded a very solid, arguably superior array of important Ferraris, and their overall results both dollars and No Sales were impacted by failure of those specific cars to sell...

    On an unrelated note: Earlier this summerI thought I saw somewhere there was a T Head Mercer Raceabout at Pebble, but now don't see it anywhere in the results. Anyone else notice it somewhere?
     
  4. Nembo1777

    Nembo1777 F1 World Champ

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2006
    Messages:
    11,566
    Location:
    opposite lock
    Full Name:
    Marc Sonnery
    They are truly cars for connoisseurs, the average enthusiast knows next to nothing about them. I will take one over a Daytona any day; 90% of the perfomance, a far nicer sound, much more usable in traffic.

    I love their rarity and not having what every lemming idolizes misguidedly.

    One of the best classic Ferrari salesmen ever just told me a great anecdote about a major collector, who has had everything under the sun and really drives his cars, a lot, bought a very good one and then went and spent a fortune on it, several hundred thousand. When he asked him why on earth he would do that he answered: "Because it is the best Ferrari I have driven; a delight to enjoy with a great sounding engine and practical, I can even drive it easily into Manhattan."
     
    Zanny1, SCantera, davemqv and 4 others like this.
  5. merstheman

    merstheman F1 Rookie

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2007
    Messages:
    4,670
    Location:
    São Paulo, Brazil
    Full Name:
    Mario
    Broad Arrow: https://www.broadarrowauctions.com/news/1913-Mercer-35-J-Raceabout-with-Single-Family-Ownership-Since-1959-Highlights-Brass-Era-Brilliance-at-the-Upcoming-Broad-Arrow-Monterey-Jet-Center-Auction

    Did not sell.
     
    ersatzS2 and 375+ like this.
  6. Edward 96GTS

    Edward 96GTS F1 World Champ Silver Subscribed

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2003
    Messages:
    11,080
    for me, a new Calif or Roma would be much better for daily driving.
     
  7. 375+

    375+ F1 World Champ Silver Subscribed

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2005
    Messages:
    13,651
    PK?
     
    readplays likes this.
  8. Nembo1777

    Nembo1777 F1 World Champ

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2006
    Messages:
    11,566
    Location:
    opposite lock
    Full Name:
    Marc Sonnery
    I was obviously talking about classics, you know, with carburetors;-) He no doubt has some moderns too but classics are far more enjoyable a much better experience.
     
    turbo-joe and ggjjr like this.
  9. Nembo1777

    Nembo1777 F1 World Champ

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2006
    Messages:
    11,566
    Location:
    opposite lock
    Full Name:
    Marc Sonnery
    LD
     
  10. TTR

    TTR F1 Veteran Rossa Subscribed

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2007
    Messages:
    5,890
    Location:
    Riverside, CA
    Full Name:
    Timo
    C'mon now !?!
    Why try to introduce common sense logic to speculators-pretending-to-be-car-guys preferring to be enamored by their Hammer & Sickle apps over reality ?
    Sometimes I wish these auction houses would start offering bridges and alike ? Would be a hoot to watch these same speculators falling over each other expressing their opinions on "market" & "values" of those too.
     
    KenGoldman likes this.
  11. ersatzS2

    ersatzS2 Formula Junior

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2009
    Messages:
    862
    Location:
    Norfolk VA
    well dammit, the car was probably sitting a couple hundred yards from the FBO when I landed Wed. KMRY was a madhouse, I was so eager to get on my way to the Gooding tent I never even questioned what was going on. That was one of the very very few legit from-new Type 35 Raceabouts, would've loved to see it...
     
    readplays likes this.
  12. TTR

    TTR F1 Veteran Rossa Subscribed

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2007
    Messages:
    5,890
    Location:
    Riverside, CA
    Full Name:
    Timo
    While I've always believed pictures/photos can be misleading (some hugely), but based on those provided on the above listing along with my recent, few months of intimate time spent with a single owner C/4, not to mention my general firsthand photo-documentation experiences with numerous unrestored, original condition/configuration vintage cars in past 4+ decades, I would tend to agree with Dyke & Alberto this appearing to be just an average car with fair amount non-original details & features.
    And let's not forget the fact that mechanical & technical aspects of any car offered through an auction can be a huge crap shoot if not inspected/tested prior to bidding.
     
  13. TTR

    TTR F1 Veteran Rossa Subscribed

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2007
    Messages:
    5,890
    Location:
    Riverside, CA
    Full Name:
    Timo
    This ^^ is an excellent summary of how & why my beloved hobby & lifelong passion has been infiltrated by all these poser/speculator/wannabes desperately trying to identify as "car guys" and just nearly ruined it for true enthusiasts.
    They have no passion for cars or what they were made for, i.e. driving.
     
    davemqv and TheMayor like this.
  14. Prancing 12

    Prancing 12 F1 Rookie Silver Subscribed

    Joined:
    May 11, 2004
    Messages:
    2,757
    Location:
    The long way home
    You obviously have a massive issue with the commercialized side of the vintage car world, so I have to wonder... Why are you reading - and more so bothering to post in - this thread?

    Like it or not, vintage cars - particularly Ferraris - are widely considered a genuine alternative asset, in the same way fine art and collectible wines are... And it's not like this is some recent devolution of your "beloved hobby"... People have been buying / selling / trading and speculating on these cars since they were new.

    To label your fellow thread participants as "wannabes" and "posers" while trying to project some sort of sense of self-ascribed superiority (because you don't participate in the market; only online chat threads that specifically discuss the market o_O) is, at best, weird, and at worst... well, there are a few ways to describe it.

    If you don't like it, cool. But why bother?
     
    simpen, peterp, Simon and 3 others like this.
  15. 3500 GT

    3500 GT Formula 3

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2008
    Messages:
    1,478
    Location:
    USA
    Full Name:
    Gentleman Racer
    I think the answer is self evident.

    TTR has the time to post, and has an opinion.

    Welcome to America.
     
    TTR likes this.
  16. toparkt

    toparkt Formula Junior Rossa Subscribed

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2006
    Messages:
    746
    Location:
    orange county
    Full Name:
    Andrew Goetz
    I don’t think anyone who cuts a check for 6 or 7 figures for a hobby at some point in the back of the head think about future value , some appreciation or asset protection.


    Sent from my iPad using FerrariChat
     
    TTR likes this.
  17. swift53

    swift53 F1 Veteran Rossa Subscribed

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2007
    Messages:
    8,286
    Location:
    E.S.
    Full Name:
    Alberto
    Freedom of speech, and potentially, a touch more tolerance, as Tolerance is the key word. Reasonability good manners, and good are quintessential.
    Ever been to Hyde Park?

    Regards, Alberto
     
    TTR likes this.
  18. swift53

    swift53 F1 Veteran Rossa Subscribed

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2007
    Messages:
    8,286
    Location:
    E.S.
    Full Name:
    Alberto
    'Cause he feels like it, just as I do commenting about it. And so do others.
    @Prancing 12, what makes you or I, the Freud of turn? We are all guilty, Nuclear fears, the Markets, Unsold / sold cars, gay/non gay rights. Let's all lighten up a notch :)

    It appears that here it is the thing, instead of allowing people to express their thoughts, it is a massive reprisal, chastising and demeaning others' thoughts.
    It is a massive "I am right, you are so incredibly wrong, stupid, inane, wasteful of my time, I am the torch bearer, I AM IT!"
    It is fortunate firing squads are not allowed, yet.

    Who ITF cares? Are we all so touchy? I can imagine talking to the family after a day of F-chat and these topics, ay,ay, ay...

    Regards, Alberto
     
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2024
    TTR likes this.
  19. davemqv

    davemqv F1 Rookie

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2014
    Messages:
    3,167
    Location:
    USA
    Full Name:
    Dave
    +1 many times over. I get old Ferrari V12’s being 150-500k based on model, and a few being over a million or two. They’re valuable cars. But they’re meant to be driven, not be “hard assets” or laundering devices. who is driving their 500 Superfast every weekend, or pushing their 275 GTB/4 to the upper rev limit in the mountains, or taking their 330 GTC on a 6 day, 2000 mile road trip? I know there are a few, but they are very few and far between.

    I would much rather be the guy who drives a $200k vintage car hard and creates memories, than be the guy who pays 10 million for a car to talk about what someone else did with it 40 years ago.
     
    TTR, ggjjr, Zanny1 and 2 others like this.
  20. Prancing 12

    Prancing 12 F1 Rookie Silver Subscribed

    Joined:
    May 11, 2004
    Messages:
    2,757
    Location:
    The long way home
    I actually never said TTR was wrong or that he's not allowed to express his thoughts and I didn't feel I was being "touchy"...

    I simply questioned why he continually posted off-topic remarks, counter to the title and spirit of the thread. Beyond that, it seemed rather distasteful to call other participants "wannabes" and "posers" - simply for participating in a thread specifically about auctions / prices / results, in a sub-section titled "Vintage Ferrari Market"...

    FerrariChat is a big place and this little corner is one of the few that's specifically dedicated to buying, selling & valuations... You know, the market. There's another entire section dedicated to the general discussion of vintage cars with hundreds of threads, and dozens of other sections and thousands of other threads that aren't specifically intended (as indicated by title) to discuss the market.

    If I were to go to the 348/355 section and there was a thread titled "Bright Pink F355s" and all of the owners and interested parties were discussing their affection of all things bright pink F355s, I'd find it similarly distasteful and strange for someone that has no interest in bright pink F355s to post that he finds another model superior to F355s and furthermore, he feels that those that like discussing bright pink F355s are "posers" and "wannabes"... Again, like cool that you feel that way and that's fine if that's your opinion, but then why are you even here?

    In the end, I'm not trying to police the thread and posters, and the easiest thing to do is go back to what I typically do in the past - disregard most posts by TTR.

    So... how 'bout them auctions? On a more relevant note, someone pointed out to me that LW, the consignor of the 410 Sport at RM, paid $23mm for it in 2014 - that's quite a haircut! At least someone thought it was a bargain, as I understand it was bought on speculation by a European dealer.
     
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2024
    Nembo1777 and swift53 like this.
  21. swift53

    swift53 F1 Veteran Rossa Subscribed

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2007
    Messages:
    8,286
    Location:
    E.S.
    Full Name:
    Alberto
    You are absolutely right :) and my reply was not directed at you, simply, to a lot.

    Regards, Alberto
     
    Prancing 12 likes this.
  22. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini Two Time F1 World Champ Honorary

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2005
    Messages:
    24,860
    Incorrect information.
    Didn't pay $ 23 M.
    And not bought on speculation by Euro dealer.

    Marcel Massini
     
    KenGoldman and readplays like this.
  23. Prancing 12

    Prancing 12 F1 Rookie Silver Subscribed

    Joined:
    May 11, 2004
    Messages:
    2,757
    Location:
    The long way home
    I was pointed to the Barchetta listing that stated $23mm was the price paid in 2014, but I hadn't yet bothered (or cared enough) to try and verify. Can you share the actual figure?

    And was it not bought on speculation? Or not bought by a EU-based dealer? The exact phrasing was something along the lines of: "might have a buyer for it", implying he bought it anyways, without firm commitment and not bought on behalf of a waiting end-user...
     
  24. ERA

    ERA Karting

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2015
    Messages:
    74
    The 365 GTC/4 has also been Brandon Wang's car of choice in multiple Tour Autos, keeping his 250 GTO for start & finish.
     
    readplays, Zanny1, donv and 1 other person like this.
  25. BIRA

    BIRA Formula Junior

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2007
    Messages:
    956
    in all fairness he did not really follow the TA exact route, but preferred the Relais Chateaux and 3 stars Michelin to the PP cantines around the Tour, so he could also take a more comfortable car
     
    Jack-the-lad, ERA, Nembo1777 and 3 others like this.

Share This Page