Monterey auction thread (the '24 edition)

that

that's why i drive an old lotus now ! no speculators all fun and thrills

 

Once again, without a PPI, it is like buying a Russian / et al. bride via photographs.
In photos she is a lovely, straight from one of the PG-13 topics on Silver, very well educated beauty, yet at JFK, her slightly overweight mother +30 years. Surprised? Don't be

Naturally, if buying a mega million car, from impeccable provenance, authenticity, and maintenance, a moot point.
I am clearly talking C/4. A crap shoot.

Yesterday, I bought a BMW 735i locally, strictly for the motor and the diff, and on the way to the farm (5 miles)...it boiled over, and yes, we did a PPI.
But for $1500, not much of a risk. Great compression and leak down, the motor is coming apart as we speak.
The rest of the car components are for sale PM if interested. LOL... Oh, and an auto box, ZF to boot...

I bought a little itty bitty Lancia Fulvia 1,3 HF, from a very very reputable seller, he lost his pants on the deal, and the car is a jewel, this after a PPI, and miles of documentation.
Would I have bought it at auction? 3 guesses.....

Caveat emptor my friends. Buy the best, and private treaty. Just look at the crowds at PB. Flip flops and shorts, the epitome of lots of bucks, but...
And my dream was the the Alfa 'SuperJello'

Regards, Alberto

 

That's the one to have as it carries more jello than the regular Alfa.

 

Exactly !
How many of these serious enthusiasts we see publicly speculating whether their 6 or 7 figure hobby acquisitions or restorations are worthy of some peanut gallery experts pretending to be car enthusiasts in random internet forums ?

And how many of these self-ordained “value experts” here are buying/selling/trading or restoring said 6, 7 or 8 figure vintage vehicles on regular basis, thus giving their opinions on such some resemblance of actual/insightful knowledge of the “markets” they appear so obsessed with ?
Or are they perhaps also pretending to be "experts" ?

 

As for someone perceiving me having “a massive issue with the commercialized side of vintage car world”(???) may have not paid enough attention to most of my posts here in past decade & a half and/or perhaps has just failed to understand that I’ve been involved with it pretty much full-time for past 4 decades, not only as an owner & making a living as a restorer of dozens, but also brokering or consulting in acquisitions or sales of 100s to enthusiasts worldwide, not to mention manufacturing/reproducing/selling a variety of obsolete & unusual parts, so generally speaking, I don’t think I have “massive issues" with it.

My “issue”, if you will, is that I find it quite disheartening to observe these pretend-to-be-car-enthusiasts (or pretend to be savvy investors ?) constantly harping on about the perceived market & trade values of vintage cars, especially when I think of all the future/younger generation real car enthusiasts coming to forums like this and seeing them reduced to be considered as “investment assets” instead of cars to be enjoyed as such. Unfortunately, large part of the trade industry, i.e. auctions, brokers, dealers, etc. often also market them as such, i.e. “investments”. :-(

On the one hand, while this constant harping on, obsessing & worrying over market trends & values has always been a part of the vintage car world, observing it on these discussion on public forums does allow others, including me, to see who the real car enthusiasts are or aren’t.

On the other hand, these speculators-pretending-to-be-car-enthusiasts publicly exposing themselves as such can also be a good thing.
Based on few decades of hands-on experience & observations, I’ve always cautioned/warned fellow enthusiasts to stay clear of these speculators & any “investment assets” they attempt to sell since in vast majority of cases, maintenance, repairs or “restorations”(?) on these “assets” are typically done cheaply by cutting every possible corner or worse due to these types of owners/sellers, i.e. speculators, generally focus more on financial outcomes, i.e. gains or losses, than good custodianship of the car(s).

And in case someone has missed my opinion/view on what makes a real/true car enthusiast:
An individual acquiring (or pursuing to) owning a car he/she really wants for the enjoyment it was intended to, i.e. driving & can (comfortably) afford, not only to buy, but also “own” it by properly maintaining without a single concern for future resale values or what others think about it.
IMO, anything else is just pretending.

Also IMO, a person can have a car “collection” worth hundreds of millions or whatever, but that doesn’t necessarily make them a real car guy/gal or true enthusiast for them. Same with collectors of art, etc.

 

I do the same. I happened to come across a post of his a few days ago which showed he's been serial stalking me for over 7 years.

His posts project a massive problem with people from the peanut gallery who are much more knowledgeable than him and can't seem to grasp that there are people from the peanut gallery who are more knowledgable than some official experts. In that time he's never once been able to disprove a single point that this person from the peanut gallery has made. Knowledge is Power!

 

Mr. Robinson,

Totally derailing the thread, but after your thoughtful ripostes that do the same, I thought
a few lines may be in order.

After following lightly your variety of statements, profound assessments, critical pundit, and other adjectives that escape me, I am curious, beyond Ferrari, et.al. what is (are) your other(s) field(s) of expertise in life, that make you "Powerful".
Yet, I dare say, timid of 'serial stalkers'?

Studies, degrees, fellowships, etc.? Entrepreneur, perhaps...a linguist. Wrote some books?
Clearly, and admirably, you must be one of the foremost Automotive Information sources, to say the least.
Gieves and Hawkes aficionado I bet, but alas no branches in Cardiff.
I come from a ....hole country in the 3rd world, so clearly no relation, and no bespoke clothing to speak of,
yet we used to send away for it in the 1800's, and sent clothing to be laundered in Paris,
and brought London bankers over, to show us 'how to'.

Regrets on the sidetracking, but what prompts to write is, I am only curious as to the statement "Knowledge is Power!"
It is a very strong statement, as it would appear, that you are a 'Mensa' or some other exclusive society member,
thus a "Powerful man of the world", as you carry on with might, presence, wherewithal, and other means of technical verbiage.

I even dared to bestow praise on your "Conan Doyle" work on the fake car, so there may be hugely much more merit to Forghieri when he did same.

If you wish to ask me the same, I would me most happy to divulge my scarce attributes, and yes, I agree that "Knowledge is Power!",
but I would dare add that Beneficial, Kind, and Generous Power is better...

Kind regards,

Alberto

 

It’s funny…think 1978…For my honeymoon I drove my Dads C/4 into Manhattan to stay at the Hilton.The valet left the car out front for the world to see. Later drove it through the Baltimore Harbor Tunnel dropped it into 3rd gear at 6000 rpm.

Nothing like the sound of the 365 GTC/4. Howls like a racer,

 

Excellent!

At Motorcar Gallery in Fort Lauderdale we went through five of them back then 20 years ago (the dealership owned many more, founder Ed Waterman is a big fan) and my favorite was this one, Copyright indicated.

That first photo is the day I drove it to Moroso during the Cavallino Classic 2004. Oro Kelso senape with those Borranis. a gorgeous car, it had the exact same colors as my (Maserati) Khamsin, I took photos of them together once but they got lost. The C4 is actually the Ferrari that comes close to the regal ease of driving and sensuous pleasure of the Khamsin though with less torque.

The only tunnel in Florida was 1 mile from the showroom and going through it with them was eargasmic

That car then went to Chicago (2nd photo) and is now in Australia (last photo).


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Ahhh…..Ed Waterman…..my first Ferrari came through Ed when his place was in Arlington VA. It was 1976 when my dad took me there to buy a 330 GTC. Silver with French blue leather. Ed said he had driven the 330 extensively through a European vacation with his girlfriend.

The word was that if you bought from Waterman it was sort of a crap shoot…lol, Fortunately I got lucky as I had that GTC for 100k miles and 9 years.

Today a Blu Sera 330 GTC is being auctioned on BaT. It was also a Waterman car too,

 

You don't need a tunnel. 2nd gear 6000 RPM pass in front of my house a couple of weeks ago.
https://youtube.com/shorts/HmNl-C-Q2wA

 

Thank you for the video. What a sound!!

 

Here’s the BaT for the vintage guys…

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1968-ferrari-330-4/

 

The chassis ID tag currently on 11309 is a reproduction.
I just don't understand why the old Italian registration documents and ID tags were stolen in September 1969 in Italy.

Marcel Massini

 

Ever lived in Italy in those days?

I did, and cars were stolen every day, next day on their way to Africa, etc.

Regards, Alberto

 

I have listened to that a few times……..I had 3 different C/4s to drive. My Dads, one I flipped 4o years ago and a blu/tan from Fantasy Junction that I let go in 2008 (in a panic of the market). It was solid mechanically but needed a lot finishing….dash etc.

 

"Santa Monica, Calif. (August 26, 2024) — International auction house and collector car market leader Gooding & Company today announces the hiring of new Senior Specialist Rupert Banner, a celebrated auction industry expert with three decades of experience in the business."

https://www.goodingco.com/press/article/gooding-and-company-announces-senior-specialist-rupert-banner-expands-global

 

@swift53

Dear Alberto,

Perhaps you haven’t paid enough attention to be aware of the long established history of “Mr. R.” not being accustomed to provide answer to anyone questioning his “qualifications” (or lack of), validity of his presented “evidence” or any other similar, perhaps uncomfortable inquiries.

Years ago I tried to get clarifications for some, but to no avail and ended up being considered a “serial stalker”(?) by someone who antagonized/pestered/stalked his (former) debate opponent far beyond what I could dedicate time for, even long after said opponent had walked away and I wouldn’t be surprised if that stalking is still ongoing somewhere outside of this forum.

I also find it quite interesting how someone claiming to disregard/ignore my comments/posts just …

“… happened to come across a post of his a few days ago which showed he's been serial stalking me for over 7 years”,

which made me wonder when exactly this “serial stalking” is supposed to have begun ?

Was it the time I first asked clarification for some of the presented “evidence” in the 0846 debacle/debate or perhaps later, when I occasionally reinstated my request for same or asked for other clarifications (again, all went unanswered) ?

I think it would be neat if someone with more power of knowledge than I possess (in computer operating) could provide links to our burning questions “here” or in some, more applicable thread, but holding one’s breath while waiting may not be advisable.

 

One of the most resounding comments I heard discussed over Monterey this year was there’s “too much to do”. Many shows. Many launches. Many parties. Many club events. All of that coupled with too many auctions on too many days with too many similar cars makes it difficult to fill all of those rooms with buyers. Then there’s holding an auction Wednesday evening which is a travel day for most of the attendees. Of course RM ran very slow and late on Saturday evening as well, and this doesn’t work well when so many people have a full/long Sunday ahead of them so the idea of sitting around until near midnight at an auction is less than appealing for most of them. All in all these sales need to be better planned, better scheduled, better ran, and better curated if the right balance of cars to buyers and values is to be struck.

 

While I haven’t attended the car week last couple of years, I remember it being like this ^^ already 10-15* years ago, so I can only imagine how bad it has become.

*I remember thinking already back then that if one were to try and attend (& spend reasonable time in) all or even most of the events & parties, both public & private, it would only be possible by having a helicopter and chauffeured cars on standby at landing spots, maybe even requiring a back door access to some of the bigger (= popular) events.

 

Dear Timo,

Face it, you are Elmer Fudd, best stalker (hat too) and you will never catch the 'wascally wabbit'. Never.
Give up, not worth the aggro.

Kind regards, Alberto

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Thank you for the 'like' Mr. R.

My reply was strictly to mitigate, not support, so do not think of it as praise. And it was not 'tongue in cheek'.
I was 'stalking' you also, and it got you banned to 'relax'.........here

Timo, I will look for my B.Bunny suit, I know it is in the basement,

Best, Alberto

 

TTR is Fudd, not Thud. I am B. Bunny, the silly wabbit...Did you watch cartoons as a kid, or never was a kid?
Possibly, you looked us up recently? here

Oh, and please don't forget my request on the GTO post. I would be most grateful.

 

No, I was more interested in Ferraris, Lamborghinis, Maseratis, Jags, Jensens and Aston Martins. My father however, who I got to buy all these cars when I was a kid, absolutely loved cartoons, especially Tom & Jerry.

 

A life without cartoons? How on earth would you otherwise believe that Wile E. Coyote (Genius) could drop
thousands of feet and come out unscathed? Or the tiny umbrella... but then the Beeb, well, we all know the quality

Guess the Bard, was not your favourite at age 5, never a kid. Terrible, and at English schools, to add to the pain...Memories of "Another brick in the wall"....

I also grew up with cars, planes, and trains. Cartoons, alas, in Italy not very abundant on TV, yet an avid reader of Salgari, and any book that made the Roman Empire our hero and your foe.

John Wayne in Italian (very strange). Rode bicycles with my band of friends all over Rome, few cars around, yet my Dad, a very avid car aficionado,
took me a few times to see Mr. Ferrari, had a Wile E. Coyote ride with Mike Parkes in some Ferrari.

"My father however, who I got to buy all these cars when I was a kid..." the real ones or Dinky?