812 Replacement Rumors

Can't wait to see it. Sounds like Ferrari should try to hire the designer.

 

It looks like 12 Cilindri co2 emission homologation has been done. At least this dealer page indicates so:
https://nuernberg.ferraridealers.com/de-DE/articles/MERTEL-Panorama-Tour-or-Ammersee-(copy)-(copy)-(copy)-(copy)-(copy)-(copy)-(copy)-(copy)-(copy)-(copy)-(copy)-(copy)-(copy)-(copy)
(BTW. Someone must have had some technical issues with the url creation...)

Not totally sure if these 12 Cilindri figures can be trusted because the article refers to www.dat.de/co2/ where the data should be available. 12 Cilindri results are not displayed there yet.

Anyway, here is a comparison to previous models:

366 g/km | 16.1 l/100km | 812 Superfast
373 g/km | 16.4 l/100km | 812 GTS

385 g/km | 16.9 l/100km | 812 Competizione
370 g/km | 16.3 l/100km | 812 Competizione Aperta

353 g/km | 15.5 l/100km | 12 Cilindri (unconfirmed)

Something obviously went wrong with the homologation process of 812 Competizione. Being a lighter car than Aperta, it should have recorded lower figures.

If the presented 12 Cilindri figures are real, it is a decent improvement given that car weight has increased. Introduction of 8th gear may help a bit, but then again I'm not sure how much it is used in the WLTP measurement. Changes to exhaust system (such as addition of ceramic catalytic converter) may play a part as well together with slightly reduced torque.

I haven't really understood what Ferrari is trying to achieve with ATS (Aspirated Torque Shaping). The way it has been described in Product note makes no sense me. And why it has been limited to 3rd and 4th gear only? I have been wondering whether it has more to do with emissions controls in WLTP cycle.

 

When the EU has to fight off the Russian invasion of it’s eastern flanks with an EV army, then they will wake up-to an even worse nightmare. With the US heading in the same direction, don’t expect it to be able help out its Western Civilization friends…


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Tremendous design and styling job by Aston Martin here. This new Vanquish is a vastly superior representative of its brand than the 12 C.

 

The Vanquish makes the 12 Cilindri look like a design school project for 1st year students.

 

This is what everyone here was raving about? It isn't bad by any means but there's a lack of cohesion between the front and rear. The rear is muscular and aggressive while the front is strong and feminine, plus the fact that it's too similar to the vantage, not a good look for your halo.

Then there's the TT V12. I really can't get myself to care about this engine. It doesn't have the sound nor the revs and it makes the same power as the Ferrari NA counterpart. If anything it's closer to the Bentley GT's (now discontinued) W12.

 

In terms of performance, the Aston lacks RWS which should help to feel the car tighter and smaller, and the engine offers as much power as the 12C yet relying on turbos. For me the unmistakable beauty of the Ferrari's V12NA is that it has fewer parts that could fail, so reliability is expected to be better over the Aston, if only for the amount of things that could go wrong in turbocharged engines.

 

Respectfully disagree.
This Aston looks like a blend of different designs to my eyes, with the same generic shape in the end.
Rear is lacking elegance.
12c is more cohesive.
Only downside for me is the black colored roof.

 

20 centimeters too big !
It s a pure GT concept while 12 C is a Competizione in evening wear

 

Quite interesting. The new Vanquish breaks EU legislation which requires maximum wall-to-wall diameter of 12.5 m.

Vanquish:
Turning circle (kerb to kerb): 12.7 m
Turning circle (wall to wall): 13.3 m

12 Cilindri:
Turning circle (wall to wall): 12.1 m

https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=CELEX%3A01996L0053-20190814

"Any motor vehicle or vehicle combination which is in motion must be able to turn within a swept circle having an outer radius of 12,50 m and an inner radius of 5,30 m"

 

I could not disagree more, the Aston Martin is handsome but there is no edge, no risk taken by the designer and there is not cohesive story to the design. The front and the back are not congruent and seem like they were designed independently not part of an overall story.

The boomerang shapes that are inspired by aviation are consistent throughout the 12C. It is a design that starts in the past (Daytona) then catapults into the future with cues taken from avant garde/ space Odessa forms. It’s ahead of its time and in a few years its beauty will really show. It’s weak point is the interior which is where the Aston excels.

Looks are subjective of course but I think the 12C is an absolute work of art.

 

Vanquish vs 12 Cilindri power comparison @ maximum torque/power revs (percentages display differences to 12 Cilindri).

Vanquish:
1000 Nm @ 2500 - 5000 rpm
=>
712 PS @ 5000 rpm (+2%)
835 PS @ 6500 rpm (+1%)

12 Cilindri:
678 Nm @ 7250 rpm
=>
700 PS @ 7250 rpm
830 PS @ 9250 rpm

Power figures are pretty closely matched then, but at completely different rev ranges.

Dry weight comparison:
Vanquish: 1774 kg (+14%)
12 Cilindri: 1560 kg

Weight difference: 214 kg
( ~ 3 persons, each 71 kg)

 

Some people prefer Aston no because his love Aston but because it’s hate Ferrari but I don’t know why

 

The rear hips are what really make the Vanquish - they look great. Very reminiscent of the original Vanquish and a strong, powerful shape. And the 3D rear tail lights are super cool.

The face is a bit of a mess, honestly, between the Vantage headlights and the gigantic grille. There had to be a better way of opening up enough cooling across the front without just scaling the grille up that much. It's differentiated from DB12, but maybe not in a good way.

They couldn't really mask the fact that they just took the back seats out of a 2+2 - the longer hood section gives it better overall proportions, but the rear half of the car is still pretty long. And it weighs so much. But hey, it sounds good, comfortable, fast in a straight line - good for Aston, they haven't had a legitimately competitive car in this segment in a while.

 

Did I have a senior moment and walked into an Aston Martin forum or is this still a Ferrari thread, lol.


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Hahaha!!


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Couldn’t disagree more stridently. For all the mud slinging at the 12C and now this is “vastly superior” - oh my. The rear end of this thing looks like Lego build. Seriously.


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Yes the 12C is more cohesive- as in cohesive ugliness front to back. The AM has a bit of the Mustang vibe in its silhouette as is less daring but it works. Performance…we’ll see
It will be an interesting head to head comparison… the Ferrari may win out but only by a whisker due to its RWS.

Its funny how Ferrari has been running away from its front mid supercar towards a heritage GT and AM is doing the opposite- less GT and more supercar


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Strongly disagree. Let’s wait to see how the cars do head to head, especially if AM is more supercar now. However, I would venture an educated guess that 12C will be vastly superior on the track, especially with AM’s higher sprung weight and not so crisp tranny.


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While taste is subjective and I respect your opinion I will say this:

1. When you see the new Vanquish, you say to yourself ‘Oh hell yeah, now THAT is an Aston Martin!’

2. Zero point zero people will see a 12 C and be like ‘Oh yeah, that’s what I’m talkin about lads … now THAT’S a Ferrari!’ And this current state of affairs should NEVER HAPPEN with a Ferrari V12. Roma type thingy … fine. Anything with a 6 cylinder … sure. But they should NEVER have let a V12 go out the gates looking as milk toast as this 12 C. That’s my opinion and I humbly respect the opinions of others.

 

The dry weight of the 12 C seems to be very Italian ;-)

 

Isn't Aston's dry weight of 1774 kg a comparative "Italian" figure too? I haven't seen it mentioned in the specs, only in the news articles.

Aston displays only unladen mass in the specs section:

EU Certified Unladen Mass (kg) = 1910kg

https://www.astonmartin.com/en/models/vanquish

 

The 12 C is an 812 Competizione for a third of the price, or do you see a heritage GT ?

 

Your comparison falls short because MSRP of the 812 Competitione and the 12C are nearly the same


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