Market Prices 575 Manual vs 575 F1 (conversion costs) vs 550? | Page 75 | FerrariChat
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Market Prices 575 Manual vs 575 F1 (conversion costs) vs 550?

Discussion in '456/550/575' started by Ferrari55whoa, Oct 2, 2020.

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  1. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jul 19, 2008
    39,160
    Clarksville, Tennessee
    Full Name:
    Terry H Phillips
    #1851 tazandjan, Sep 10, 2024
    F456M, LVP488, cgt000 and 1 other person like this.
  2. Auraraptor

    Auraraptor F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Sep 25, 2002
    13,958
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    Omar
    #1852 Auraraptor, Sep 10, 2024
    That’s a handsome car.
     
    Ferrari55whoa likes this.
  3. Chupacabra

    Chupacabra F1 Rookie
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    Sep 30, 2005
    3,523
    Behind a drum kit
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    Mr. Chupacabra
    #1853 Chupacabra, Sep 10, 2024
    would be cool if the owner would chime in, I’m intrigued.

    Like I need another sports car…
     
  4. Chupacabra

    Chupacabra F1 Rookie
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    #1854 Chupacabra, Sep 10, 2024

    I have to admit, I love almost everything about it, but I’m not sold on the two-tone
     
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  5. henryr

    henryr Two Time F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Nov 10, 2003
    22,405
    Atlanta
    Full Name:
    Juan Sánchez Villa-L
    #1855 henryr, Sep 10, 2024
    was it wrecked? i recall some sort of story. NJ or Philly gambino stuff...
     
    488Julius likes this.
  6. Ferrari55whoa

    Ferrari55whoa F1 Rookie
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    Dec 21, 2005
    3,374
    Los Gatos, CA
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    Eric
    #1856 Ferrari55whoa, Sep 10, 2024
    Terry, you are amazing. Thx for sharing.

    Earlier from my phone I hadn't realized the shelf was matching.
     
  7. Ferrari55whoa

    Ferrari55whoa F1 Rookie
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    Dec 21, 2005
    3,374
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    Eric
    #1857 Ferrari55whoa, Sep 11, 2024
    Need to do follow up's on a few of these....figured I'd start at the 2002 with odometer issues Brad noted when it went live (and ended RNM today).

    2002 575 F1 RNM     at $72,500 on 9/11/24
    +) VIN ZFFBV55A720128457 out of Redmond, WA and Assembly 45556
    +) Argento over nero with Daytona's, a carpet rear shelf, red master fob included, no-shields, flashlight missing,
    +) Car showing 1,106 miles. Door tag shows that on 12/1/17 the odometer showed 347,222 miles and was repaired and reset to zero. Variety of discussion on what the actual chassis miles are (lower than the tag but......)
    +) STICKY ISSUES (documented well in the photos), variety of small cosmetics (wheel curb rash, chips on front end)
    +) Car has sat for a very long time. From the posting "work in March 2021 included replacing the clutch, flywheel, throw-out bearing, bearing support flange, and clutch sensor."
    +) Belts last done October 2017 -- variety of receipts included in the sale.
    +) Clean carfax
    +) https://bringatrailer.com/listing/2002-ferrari-575m-maranello-39/

    This is a long term hold for the next owner given the odometer issue. I didn't dislike the car or color combo. @otoupalik made a comment and I agree with it that the market clearning price couldn't be far from the final RNM bid, given the odometer, its stickies, the cosmetics and deferred maintenance.

    Will be interesting to see where this one ends up.

    Later today, I'll try and type up a few of the other recents we have followed -- Eric
     
    otoupalik likes this.
  8. LorenzoOO

    LorenzoOO Formula Junior

    Sep 21, 2017
    832
    Italia, US NE
    Full Name:
    Lorenzo LaMattina
    #1858 LorenzoOO, Sep 11, 2024
    It's all over but the cryin'.


    Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat
     
    otoupalik likes this.
  9. wilhit10

    wilhit10 Karting

    Feb 18, 2004
    79
    USA
    #1859 wilhit10, Sep 12, 2024
    The 2002. Mileage issue hurts a bit. Probably needs a bit of work, stickies, plus tires. To me it's all the money at 72.

    Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat
     
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  10. otoupalik

    otoupalik Formula Junior

    Feb 22, 2004
    717
    Scottsdale, AZ
    Full Name:
    Brad Otoupalik
    #1860 otoupalik, Sep 12, 2024
    Sellers are still living in the belief that it’s a sellers market.
     
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  11. Chupacabra

    Chupacabra F1 Rookie
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    #1861 Chupacabra, Sep 12, 2024
    What are the BAT group masturbation high five club going to do?!?! :)

    Reality will hit. It’s time. I don’t care if my assets go down in value a smidge; this insanity needs to go bye bye, especially if we want a future for automotive enthusiasm.

    I concur that, given the fairly major issues/unknowns, that ‘02 should have been a sale.
     
    brogenville, otoupalik, Aerosurfer and 2 others like this.
  12. Chupacabra

    Chupacabra F1 Rookie
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    #1862 Chupacabra, Sep 12, 2024
    I revisited the listing a minute ago…I can’t believe FOS charged, what? $22k for a clutch job?! Mother of god…

    It really does look like a nice car, and it does appear there is documentation to support the car has ~8k miles or so. So my takeaways are 1) always keep up with the services 2) document the living daylights out of anything involving the odo and 3) Don’t ever drop your car off at Ferrari of Seattle’s service department
     
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  13. Ferrari55whoa

    Ferrari55whoa F1 Rookie
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    Dec 21, 2005
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    Eric
    #1863 Ferrari55whoa, Sep 12, 2024
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2024
    Catching up on a few of these.....two weeks ago we had a converted 575 on Cars & Bids go RNM.

    2003 575 CONVERTED 6MT RNM at $114,000 on 8/30/24
    +) VIN ZFFBV55A130133719 out of Surrey BC, Canada and Assembly #50839 (per Terry the steering suspension upgrades were 52556 and later)
    +) US MARKET CAR imported to Canada in 2006.
    +) Argento over nero with aftermarket carbon racing style seats with original Daytona's included.modulars, Tubi's, leather parcel shelf, 3 fobs (incld red master).flashlight included
    +) Seller reported conversion done in Canada by "Outrun Mfg" with Robin helping on the kit and the tune was done by Trev.
    +) Car showed 17,267 miles. Didn't see commentary about the clutch or if a reading was taken? Did see the throwout bearing replaced with a Hill unit.
    +) Timing belt service perhaps last done by Ferrari of Vancouver BC in 2017?
    +) From the posting "Although the attached Carfax history report lists no accidents or damage, the seller reports that bodywork has been performed on this car and that several body panels have been repainted." Notes from the auction called out CAD$55k in bodywork/related-work.
    +) aged tires (2009), scratches on passenger front wheel, custom stereo with large amp in the trunk.
    +) Sticky buttons were noted to be fixed
    +) Clean carfax
    +) https://carsandbids.com/auctions/rbz2P16g/2003-ferrari-575m-maranello

    For those that aren't following our friend @180 Out and his 612 conversion, he commented during this auction and has had quite a bit of value added commentary across the online auction platforms.

    TAKEAWAYS: always hard to understand how bad the historical damage on the accident the car had (not reported on CarFax) was without putting hands on the car and having a PPI done.

    Thankfully the car was originally US delivered so bringing the car back would hopefully not be an issue.

    Light option car and assembly prior to the suspension upgrades.

    Value......this one had "hair on it" from the historical accident.

    Low options, Low-ish miles, aftermarket seats, but included factory daytona's....tubi's where should this one have shaken out....higher?....but how much higher? I still think Kevin's green deGroot converted 575 was gorgeous and well kept with higher miles and I expected to see it close higher.....Could it be argued that this car should be $20k lower than Kevin's....appears to need a belt service at a minimum.

    I don't think I would have let the car go at $114k.....with bad tires and needing a belt service would this F1 car with damage been under $80k?....then add $35k to $40k for the conversion?

    Very interested to keep watching these converted cars as a variety of kits and approaches hit the market. Frankly I hope a lot of guys are doing conversions and keeping them.

    Interested in the collective thoughts -- Eric
     
  14. otoupalik

    otoupalik Formula Junior

    Feb 22, 2004
    717
    Scottsdale, AZ
    Full Name:
    Brad Otoupalik
    #1864 otoupalik, Sep 12, 2024
    I think 115k was all the money given the issues.
     
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  15. Chupacabra

    Chupacabra F1 Rookie
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    #1865 Chupacabra, Sep 12, 2024
    I think it is reasonable to assume it could have done a touch better had it not been on cars and bids. I know quite a few people haven’t warmed to that platform.
     
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  16. wilhit10

    wilhit10 Karting

    Feb 18, 2004
    79
    USA
    #1866 wilhit10, Sep 13, 2024
    Real question is, is this due to the end of summer, or is the market really softening. This time last year it was a blood bath with Ferrari 360s, but now they are pulling ok money again. As an enthusiast we should hope the value goes down. Cheaper insurance, and less stress when we drive them. I am over people constantly talking to me about how much their car or house has gone up. I'd rather talk about how great they drive and how to keep them on the road.
     
    brogenville, NE550, Chupacabra and 3 others like this.
  17. F456M

    F456M F1 Rookie

    Jan 8, 2010
    3,696
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    Erik
    #1867 F456M, Sep 14, 2024
    Not to dissapoint you 575 converted to manual owners, but a great 550 will (in my eyes and opinion) always be a more unique car as «everyone» familiar with these cars and their design, will see it is a 550 (with manual), while people seeing a 575M will say it is thr facelift of the original and most likely be a F1 car. And if they spot a stick shifter in them, they will discuss if it is original or not.
     
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  18. Ferrari55whoa

    Ferrari55whoa F1 Rookie
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    Dec 21, 2005
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    Eric
    #1868 Ferrari55whoa, Sep 14, 2024
    As a 550 owner….id say the strong attraction to the converted cars is all the weaknesses of the 550 are solved by the evolutionary upgrades in a 575?

    If someone is lucky enough like me to find/buy a car with all the upgrades being done then no worries but otherwise why not start with the better/stronger 575? Especially one with a late assembly?
     
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  19. Auraraptor

    Auraraptor F1 World Champ
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    Sep 25, 2002
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    Omar
    #1869 Auraraptor, Sep 14, 2024
    Agreed, it’s easy to do on the 575 as mentioned.
     
  20. Chupacabra

    Chupacabra F1 Rookie
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    #1870 Chupacabra, Sep 14, 2024
    I love 550s, don’t get me wrong, but if you offered me a 550 instead of my OEM conversion 575, I’d pass. I’m not too concerned what the herd thinks, and I suspect there are others like me who remember the 575 as the one to have from our younger years. It’s coming; we’re still solidly in the 90’s car boom demographically speaking.
     
  21. Ferrari55whoa

    Ferrari55whoa F1 Rookie
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    Dec 21, 2005
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    Eric
    #1871 Ferrari55whoa, Sep 14, 2024
    Let’s all be honest….shouldn’t we all have a 550 & a 575? ;-). #goals

    For those with a 550, 575, and 599…#winning
     
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  22. Chupacabra

    Chupacabra F1 Rookie
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    #1872 Chupacabra, Sep 14, 2024
    THIS. Totally!

    I do appreciate the subtle styling differences and honestly would prefer to have both…but my Porsches won’t allow that right now :) The front bumper on the 550 is a big win.
     
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  23. otoupalik

    otoupalik Formula Junior

    Feb 22, 2004
    717
    Scottsdale, AZ
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    Brad Otoupalik
    #1873 otoupalik, Sep 14, 2024
    Because throttle by wire.

    they are both great cars and speak to people slightly differently. IMHO the 550 feels more analog and direct, and I prefer the styling. The mechanical improvements to the 575 are real, but can’t overcome the throttle cable and looks for me.
     
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  24. Auraraptor

    Auraraptor F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Sep 25, 2002
    13,958
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    Omar
    #1874 Auraraptor, Sep 14, 2024
    I used to have the same opinion until I upgraded my ECU and TCU. Trev removed the delay that was built into the throttle by wire and now it’s every much as lively as my analog cars.
    Honestly recoding completely transformed the car from my least pleasant to drive to one of my most.

    if you’re ever local, you should definitely drive my car and see what I mean.

    All that said, there’s no question in my mind the 550 is a more pretty car!
     
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  25. otoupalik

    otoupalik Formula Junior

    Feb 22, 2004
    717
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    Brad Otoupalik
    #1875 otoupalik, Sep 14, 2024
    I would love to drive it, it may change my opinion. There are drive by wire cars that I love, so it’s defiantly possible!

    it is really hard to not feel like the 575 may be the best value in sports+ cars at the moment. Especially if you can tune out the quirks or convert them to manual.

    I cannot think of anything else that as the experience/pedigree/performance for the same 100-120k.

    I mean a new m3 costs that much and I think we all agree the 575 is a lot more car!
     
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