The (one and only) '0846' Debate Thread

The same Classiche that certified 250LM 5899 in 2005, mind you....

(maybe it would have been different if Jim G was the manager of a current Ferrari F1 driver....)

(BTW I do believe the car is a total replica, I'm just commenting on Classiche's supposed........flexibility)

 

I cannot comment on the consultants that SpA employed after Jess and one other name I am aware of, but I would certainly never question Jess' integrity. I also doubt on the other person but I only know him by his outstanding reputation.

 

I'm not questioning Jess Pourret's integrity, I'm just saying nothing was definitive with Classiche, especially in the early years. I'm sure outside consultants were probably not thrilled that they decided a car like 5899 was kosher, but sometimes money and influence talk louder.

 

Thank you Jeff, very nice of you to reply in a educated and polite manner. That was a simple answer to an equally
simple question.
Most appreciated.

Regards, Alberto

 

Not a problem.

 

I would only add that I have asked a former Classiche director as well as a current Classiche Responsabile Commerciale member about Jim’s car and both said it is absolutely fake from end to end. In fact in other casual conversations with respected historians not one of them supports Jim’s Piper car or story. To my knowledge there isn’t a serious or respected expert that would go on record stating Jim’s car is in fact 0846 as a bitsa or anything else. Ferrari certainly hasn’t been willing to say it and you’d think with all of the money Jim spent with them over the years he’d have some measure of pull to get a book for it and yet here we are. No recognition. No classiche book. No nothing outside of a wild and ridiculously improbable story.

 

Wow, all I have to add is 0846 shure has created a huge **** storm here.

 

I have a better one. Ferrari Classiche chose to red book Fabrizio Violatti's 330P #0818 in 2006. They must have known another #0818 existed in Austria, with Egon Hofer. Violatti's car had been built in the UK for an American in the late 1970s, supposedly using the original chassis which had been supplied by David Piper. But OF COURSE. Meanwhile papers exists (I have seen them) which prove Ferrari supplied the car to Maranello Concessionaires in '64 for Graham Hill/ Jo Bonnier to drive in World Sportscar Championship events. They sold it to the Protheroes and poor Dick Protheroe was killed in it first time out at the Oulton TT. Further a specific contract exists proving the 1966 of its engineless mortal remains from Rosemary Protheroe to the Austrian owner, who spent decades rebuilding it. That said Ferrari Classiche's early rules simply stated that cars would be examined to show they were to the same mechanical form as they left the factory and I guess the Violatti car could have been said to be so. I am not sure they considered themselves the arbiter of originality, after all Ferrari kept records as built and any cars returned for repair, service or race preparation but didn't track cars that went abroad per se. Then again Classiche means something totally different for a delivery mileage LaFerrari and a 1966 Ferrari P4.

 

Thanks, that helps the point I was trying to make.

 

Just think of the Vatican, and its background, through its longish history.

My father, at the Vatican Bank (Istituto per le Opere di Religione), received a much better exchange rate being a foreign diplomat, than at Italian banks. Why?

You think Ferrari is above it all? Really?

 

Miurasv is the hero who demistified a naive Walt Disney style fable in the Ferrari world and was therefore heavily attacked for years by the disappointed claqueurs, who would like to have continued believing in the fairy tale and protect the fable. Miurasv’s knowledge and detailed documentary – highly praised from Mauro Forghieri who considered him the “greatest P4 expert in existence” - made clear for everyone that #DP 0003 is no Ferrari car and product but a Piper creation without any 0846 remains, as sold, bought and imported. And Mauro Forghieri is – as we all know – not an uninformed thread activist, but the legendary creator and father of all P-cars. This contribution to Ferrari's P-car history and its correction is entirely due to miurasv’s outstanding knowledge and excellent research published here on Fchat. Does this contribution not less deserve a ban but rather an excuse and re-registration? And isn’t it a shame to ban miurasv without a tangible reason and lose him as an expert, historian and qualified contributor on Fchat?

 

Says the one user who is most definitely above the law!

 

He IS the law.

 

Nobody questioned the research effort or accumulated knowledge of Miura SV. The problem was how he interacted with others on the forum. The moderators try to keep all discourse civil and constructive, he did not do that.

 

Bring Steve back - please! The attacks he made weer far less than those he received.

 

Not knowing the latest contratemps Steve was participating in; he does bring a foreign point of view to the 'merican bluster. It seems everyone has to be marching in the same direction.
The cars will always be around but Steve won't be.

 

Quite. He still has more knowledge on these cars than 99.5% of all the other posters. Banning him is a loss to us all.

 

Spot-on Dyke. His research is superb but he was getting a bit hostile--and I like Steve. Learn to play well with others.

 

Dyke, your comments are brilliant as always. Steve is a very clever researcher, very knowledgeable...

Yet, he is a bit like calling your kidnapper to ask for toilet paper.... Dread to do so.

Regards, Alberto

 

Francis, a very kind comment, yet, a few % points less might be appropriate, otherwise we all appear as complete twits.

Regards, Alberto

PS. A loss to us all? Maybe, but if even the Vatican can survive when the Pope dies, they elect a new one. Nobody is indispensable in life, Nobody. You can miss, but can live a few months without.

I am curious about that day of return, as probably many more.
You see, now he has made himself a 'sitting duck'.

 

Attacks he received? What is he a little child? They were comments he simply had no tolerance for, or anything else.

He did not make attacks, he was rude, insulting, and impolite, and that, in most polite people's book is inadmissible.

Regards, Alberto

 

Steve received attacks claiming his extensive research was false, from the same poster, over and over, without that poster ever citing any specific data that was wrong or even bothering to look at the research. Those posts are the very definition of trolling, and it happened over and over in this thread (and others, which is a shame because that poster sometimes has good info to share). Steve lasted longer than many of us would have before responding.

In my opinion, the repeated troller should have been at least thread-banned far earlier to prevent the blow-up. If you spend years researching something, and somebody repeatedly claims that research is false without even bothering to look at the research that he is criticizing, I think you're lying to yourself if you don't think you'll hit a breaking point also.

 

Ah well , if I read it right there have been 11324 posts in this thread. If 99.95% added no real knowledge that would be just 6 posts and there were certainly more than that!. So I will adjust that to 95% which is just over 500, and I am being generous with that!