296 VS

Then hes flat out lying. No way are you going to get 1 week 10 days. That in itself should have bern enough of a red flag and you should have called him out. Driving a Pista well but not hot lapping it all day will get you 2 maybe 2.5 days but youd be risking your rotors by not charging at 2 days. 1 week to 10 days is laughable and anyone with experience of tracking a Ferrari would know that straight away. I know my service guy and he knows me well enough not to BS with that level of nonsense. Maybe hes referring to the rotors lasting 1 week 10 days of track but definitely not pads.

 

I asked him about frequency of change out while one of the mechanics was changing out a set that he had just delivered on one of the CP cars. Considering they have 15 cars in constant use for the two day program, that would be a lot of sets they would need to have on hand. 15 cars, 2 of the sport programs, 4 days, would be 60 sets and a lot of work. Certainly possible I guess but I didn't see a reason for him to be dishonest at the time.

I don't have a lot of Ferrari track experience and I haven't tracked a Pista so I can't speak to that. I have been tracking various other brands for 30 years with a bit of racing thrown in. The only significant Ferrari experience I have is tracking my Roma at my country club track and once on COTA. I never really pushed it 10/10ths and only for a max of five laps at a time with proper warm up and cool down but I had maybe 8 full days on that car and the brakes passed the CPO inspection when my 296 showed up.

I'll have the 296 at Sebring this fall, so I'll see it first hand pretty soon.

 

It's possible though that the 296 has pads lasting more than on previous cars, because the equipment is larger and they may have eventually improved their technology.
Pagid pads last a lot longer (I think, about 3 times) than the OEM pads on a 488, for instance; so Ferrari / Brembo might have begun to catch up.

 

Yes we’ll youd hope so but i don’t think so based upon what ive already been told - which again didnt really surprise me. When you think about it, the 296 has 830hp, more than a lighter weight Pista which chews through pads. The other thing is since when has Ferrari ever provided a car for circuit which has seen the level of testing as an RS Porsche has, which is why everything holds up so much better. You only need to look at the specifications of the brakes between an RS and any track focused Ferrari or Mclaren to see the discs arent as big as the RS’s, which again, are far more durable and cost effective - which should come as no surprise really.

 

not sure i follow you? rotors lasting 7 days of track? carbon rotors can list a ****ton of time on track. you just have to make sure pads are changed before they wear and score (toast the rotor) i had an R8 with CF brakes that i did 30+ track days with and rotors were like new.

 

Not saying that as i didn’t make enquiry about rotor longevity. However, i certainly have heard of ceramic rotors lasting only a very short period of time from being overheated instead of given a proper cool off between sessions.

296 generates a lot of speed very quickly and isn’t exactly a light car so logically the wear rate is going to be high particularly where a driver is beating on the car in an unsympathetic manner and doesn’t have any feel for when its time to rest the brakes.

 

Thankfully there is a lot of cooling for the brakes on the 296, hopefully that translates to less temp spikes and longer life. My Roma would constantly warn of overheated brakes on the track. I've not had a car before that had a driver alarm for the heat of the brakes, was a nice feature actually. Not sure if the 296 has it. I've done the sport CP twice at COTA with the 296 and did not see it, though they could be early spec cars/Euro/or disabled it for the course.

 

I would say that is probably not accurate. I am thinking this because the pads are soft...street pads really and they will wear out faster than track/racing pads but depending on how hard and fast the driver is going. The drivers at US Corso Pilota are not pros and normally not driving 8-10/10ths. The discs will outlast a few pad changes for sure. Maybe and they probably do get a deal or are allotted discs from Brembo for Corso Pilota so they just change them anyway.

Surface Transforms are a much superior disc than the type of Brembo disc Ferrari uses. Even the Brembo disc Porsche and Lambo use are superior to the type of disc Ferrari uses. The layup of these 2 Brembo's are different.
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Ferrari’s cooling of the brakes is nothing new least of all special. The only thing which is going to improve pad and disc life is engineering that area to the same degree Porsche does, but clearly that’s way more time and money which Ferrari is prepared to invest for the benefit of their paying customers who continue to show they are willing to pay more for a substandard product regardless.

 

Engineering for brakes IS heat management. Brakes take kinetic energy, turn it into thermal energy and then you need to dissipate it through cooling. Larger rotors can absorb and shed more heat prior to reaching their limits but you still need to get the heat out and they add unsprung weight. Porsche does a great job with their cars I agree but I don’t run them stock at the track either. At a bare minimum I swap pads and fluid.

Have you tracked the 296?

I agree with your sentiment btw, I wish Ferrari spent more time, effort and dollars on track durability for their sports cars and less on things like their horrendous clothing line.

 

yeah, I hope ST offers us a solution. If it were close I’d let them use my car for measurements.

at the last CP I did I was consistently running within a half second of the fastest reference time set by the factory drivers. 2 other in the class with me were close as well and racing the next weekend in the challenge race. It’s not to say that we’re any great shakes but those cars are pretty well abused there and mostly in constant use.

 

Yes - have on a few occasions so have a good understanding of how it feels and behaves. Certainly fast but clearly feels more a road car from what i usually track. Ive a very good understanding of how cooling and brakes work from an engineering perspective and i stand by my earlier post regarding Porsche having things far better sorted out of the box.

 

On the base 296 it's almost acceptable - but unfortunately, I'm pretty sure the VS will not make anything better. While the VS claims to be track-oriented, it's actually just a more expensive and more exclusive version for buyers who do not care how it drives.

 

the whole point of these ceramic rotors is they they are amazing at dissipating heat. you def need high temp brake fluid. but unless you track every weekend the weight of the 296 is comparable to my R8 and they should be great for fun track days every few months.

 

Never needed it in any of my cars with ceramics. Only time i needed the fluid was on an earlier rs with steels. Pista has been fine with stock fluid. The 296 felt fine also.

 

indeed. this is my first f car. i checked with the svc dept and they said it comes with PETRONAS TOP 5 FF DOT4 from the factory. The 296 challenge cars use Hydraulan 404.

so my car should be good to go. shows the commitment ferrari has made to this car being legit. i know audi puts regular fluid but not real high temp into the r8.

 

Petronas Top5FF has better wet and dry boiling point than BASF Hydraulan 404. Moltul RBF 660 and Castrol React SRF has even better wet and dry specs.

 

Motul's newest version is RBF 700, allegedly with the highest boiling temperatures on the market (dry 336 C / 637 F, wet 205 C / 401 F) - that's what I just got in my car for its annual maintenance

 

Thanks! It’s been awhile since I tracked a car… 2021.

 

yeah that 660 is what i used in my R8 and it was lock stock and barrel awesome.

 

damn. 700. good info. but i wonder if at that point you need to bleed more often or need special brake lines? i am assuming 296 doesn't use metal ones. you guys got me triggered now!

 

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Looks like a development shot of a 296, not the VS

 

This was taken a few days and is a test mute for the VS

 

296 VS Design idea from TopGear
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