Purosangue Market Values

i thought they were 1M GBP?

 

not this evening

 

In my opinion they look like a decal/sticker that was clear coated. Plus, you have to worry god forbid, ever needing a fender replaced or repainted. Standard shields have a dimensional depth being recessed into the sheetmetal. Looks much better to me.

 

I think PS game is over already, under list in UK which seems to be leading values down in PS, 296, SF90 etc. Likely at sticker or a tiny bit over in US with no miles and certainly under with some miles. Question is if you pay $600k for PS and drive it like a normal SUV, say 12,000 miles a year, how much is the PS worth after 3 years and 36,000 miles? Asking for a friend.

 

the UK as a data point for Ferrari values is completely irrelevant. it is a dead market.

 

I don’t see where Puro is selling at or slightly above in USA, at least not on Ferrari site. Where?

 

Not sure how you can say it’s irrelevant, its the second largest economy in Europe. We can pretend it’s not relevant, but it’s often an early indicator of where prices are going. Sorry, don’t shoot the messenger.

 

Sorry that is me totally speculating, I haven’t seen many for sale in the US yet.

 

Only two that I’ve seen, nearly $800k ask. lol

 

Confirmed US sale at 200K over about a month ago.

 

no idea what "second largest economy Europe" has to do with the topic, the easily verifiable truth is that Ferrari's don't sell in the UK secondary market. at. all. like I said in other threads, the likelihood is that Ferrari corporate scales back the allocations to UK significantly in the near future.

 

Sorry you are wrong. There are growing inventories of used Ferraris in every market, from the US, to Germany, to Switzerland, to France and others. The new cars are overpriced and the electronics are extremely irritating. The reality that buying a new Ferrari automatically leads to a loss in the secondary market is shock for long time buyers of the cars. In the past Ferrari left some money on the table and that we good for the market, because one year old cars were trading roughly at list, or sellers after 6 months could make a little money and the dealers would take a cut too. Now the greed has taken over, driven by the 50 times earnings multiple of the stock and the only option is to continue to expand. Expect deliveries to increase everywhere, including in the UK, but with more stringent terms, like non refundable deposits (in the US this has already been implemented) plus more contractual terms like you can’t sell for 12 or 18 months. The UK may be leading the world in poor residual values, but every other market is following. Maybe the continued boasts of making €170,000 a car are finally catching up with them. Expect them also to continue to expand in other areas now that they are a “luxury brand” not a car company. Case in point that absolutely ridiculous fashion line (do you get those emails too?). So expect more cars, to all markets, continued growth in used inventory and bigger losses to those buying the non limited cars.

 

Except that some day the current business model will not be sustainable anymore (pissed off customers will vote with their wallets and spend their money elsewhere); so how Ferrari will adapt will be interesting to watch. Honestly, I cannot tell when it will happen, but I really think it will.

 

If you follow/read the 296 and SF90 forums, some longtime heavy hitters are already jumping ship.

 

I just witnessed a 2021 812 GTS with 1500 miles sell on BaT for OVER LIST. This is a three year old car selling wholesale in the US over MSRP. So no, buying a new F car does not automatically lead to a loss. As indicated above, the Puros are going for 200k over in the US and several are listed for that or more. The idea that the new cars are overpriced is a matter of perspective. I certainly don't think they are overpriced. You call it greed, I call it smart business. Ferrari is a worldwide brand which must be carefully handled as you seem to recognize. This means not selling cars into dead markets like the UK where cars sit for months and months and prices are reduced over and over again. And still they sit. This is not good for brand management, right? You say that non-refundable deposits has been implemented in the US, but be specific. That surely is not the case where I live, deposits are fully refundable. Also, the right of first refusal is not a new concept for Ferrari and differs based on the model. Producing and selling more models doesn't mean that more are sold in the UK. The world is changing.

 

There will be plenty of new enthusiasts to replace them. Assuming they are actually "longtime heavy hitters" in the first place.

 

It is happening in real time, but it is going to be slow, old timers will leave the brand, many have already, but there is enthusiasm for Ferrari and the order book is sold a couple of years out, then you need time for those first time buyers to lose money on a couple of cars, that takes another year or two. It’s going to be slow, but I think we have already crossed the threshold where the economics of losing money on the “ordinary” cars is not outweighed by the gains of being a client that gets limited editions. At the highest level (TOP) the average client supposedly has 15 Ferraris, a number that I find hard to believe, but if true, that guy or gal isn’t probably caring about losing $300k on an SF90, but those clients are in the minority, for those of us that live in the real world, the economics matter.

 

The problem for Ferrari will be that one cannot focus on customers who don't care about losing $300K and sell 15,000 cars a year. The business model needs to be consistent.

 

I agree with much of what you have said and it is absolutely smart business, Ferrari is valued at $80bn and trades with a 50 price to earnings multiple which is unheard of for car companies. I didn’t see that 812GTS trade (I really like the 812GTS by the way) but if you look on cars.com there are 98 812GTS cars for sale, so I guess that car was well sold. If you want specifics on deposits here is something I was asked to sign just last week. It seems you have a window to get your deposit back between first and second deposit as long as it’s less than 12 months from first order, but if you cancel an order you will get massively dinged by Ferrari, ask your dealer.

You don’t think the cars are overpriced and of course that’s subjective so I respect your opinion, but to me an entry level car like my 296gts costing $540,000 seems extremely overpriced compared to other cars like 911s etc.

What is smart business today may not be smart business tomorrow, especially if your clients turn on you because they feel they have been taken advantage of, which from speaking to many long time supporters of the marque, seems to be the prevailing view at least amongst those that I speak to.

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the best car day of my life was when i told Ferrari to screw off - it was better than the day i took deliver of my f40.
and i love the pre 2012 cars that much more.

 

Regarding the deposits, it would make sense to put a time frame on refunds. I would imagine in most cases 12 months would be prior to production starting, so that seems like good business. In the US it probably has something to do with state law, so there are probably a host of different rules depending on where one lives.

Regarding cost of cars, I understand that a 296gts might be described as an entry level car in some arenas, but I would consider the current entry level to be the Roma. Compared to 911s costs are comparable for new cars due to the ADM required by most Porsche dealers, at least from the quotes I have received.

If clients leave in large numbers, Ferrari will be forced to make changes, but I don't think we are close to that stage presently.

 

@roma1280 has one of the nicest car (and watch collections) out there. If he is tiring of the games at ferrari- I can tell you he has deep pockets so I cant even Imagine the sentiment for mere mortals.

 

Low nine figure guys are no longer interesting to Ferrari… All they care about are the billionaires, or close to it

 

yeah but why would billionaires care? when you have that much money- who cares about a stupid car. It's all about planes at that point.

 

I went on the yacht of one my neighbors from Palm Beach this summer and the thing cost him $320m (it was very nice).

SoCal is correct at that level you aren’t fussing with new cars. If you are a billionaire car guy (and there are surprisingly few - they are more into art in my experience) then you are chasing the trophy cars like 250GTO, swb cal spider, 8C, F1 etc. So it’s tricky for Ferrari I think because if you want to sell 11,000 cars a year that’s a lot of clients!