348 Horn Help?

Sorry, took me a few minutes. The black wire is the wire that carries the signal from terminal 86. If you touch that wire to a ground, and the horn does not honk (you do have the relay plugged in, don't you?), then you've lost signal somewhere between the relay and the horn button. According to the diagram, the wire in question is supposed to be Violet, at least from the relay board to the steering wheel. I can't find it right off hand, there isn't enough room in my garage to squeeze under the dash.

So - the next two things to check;

1) Look through the gap around your wiper switch stalk. You can see the contact ring on the back of the steering wheel. At the very top, there should be a copper colored brush that is part of the steering column assembly. This brush has a spring behind it to hold it against the contact ring on the wheel. Can you see this? If it isn't there, that explains everything.

2) Tomorrow morning I can look under the dash and find the violet wire, which must go into a plastic connector for the wiring bundle to the column. The horn should honk when you jump this wire to ground, using the test light.

This will still be an easy problem to fix, I think, just takes a bit of diagnosis time.

 

Jeff I really appreciate your help. I'll be home tomorrow most of the day. I'll look at that copper colored bush that is behind the steering column assembly.

The horn did not work when I touched the back wire to a ground. I did have the relay in. Jeff what is a good time for me to start on this with you again tomorrow? Thanks again. You know this really started when I fixed my climate control unit. And yes it works great without going on and off. http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=55400

 

I'll be in and out tomorrow, no particular times, have much to do, none of it particularly important.

Question: do you have the tool to remove the nut for taking off the steering wheel? And do you still have your old steering wheel? Just in case we need to get behind there and do some tests.

 

I don't have the tool for the nut, but a mechanic up the street mentioned he may have it. I still have the old wheel too. I went and checked real quick and the copper brush is in place against the ring. I'll see if I can get the nut tool in the morning.

Thanks Again
Brent

 

hey miltonian looks like you the relay man maybe you can help me out please my 308gtbi died in the arse last week( on rail crossing ) trying to pull fuse cover off(with sweat in my eye,s ) went straight for fuel pump relay and replaced it with the first one i could pull out to get me off the r/line soon as i plugged it in i could here the f/pump running got car going pheewww!! moved to safe distance started playing around the orig pump relay was very warm don,t no if this is normal it cooled down plugged it back in away she went do you know is this common prob or is it just my girl not feeling well cheers rizzo in aust

 

Jeff,

Here are some pics of the back side of the relay/fuse panel. In the first pic you can see me pointing at the single violet wire. When you touch that wire with the grounded test light the horn blows. The 2nd pic shows 2 violet wires going to a single connector when I touch it with my gounded test light it lights up.
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OK Jeff,

I guess even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in a while. I ran a wire to the horn button. Then I touched the connector at the violet wire in pic1. At the same time I pushed the horn button and it worked!!!. Obviously that connection from the relay panel to the horn button (violet wire) has been lost somewhere. The 2 violet wires in the 2nd pic operate the headlight actuator.

 

Brent - I'll definitely be calling you next time I need some electrical help.

I enjoyed reading this thread along with the Climate Control thread. Also good stuff you did with getting the A/C in the 328 working better.

 

Thanks Jerry. Not sure I'm the guy you want to call first, let's see if this horn gets working again. Jeff has been very helpful. Great knowledge of this stuff. I will say that I think were getting it pretty much tracked down. Hopefully today! Thanks for the encouragement.

 

Unbelievable!! I found the problem!! My horn works!! I will post pics and an explaination soon. It was the copper contact that brushes against the back of the steering wheel after all. The spring was not holding it against the copper ring to complete the circuit.

 

In the end it had nothing to do with fixing my climate control unit (see thread http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=55400) It had nothing to do with putting the wrong relay in the horn slot. It was the the copper contact that touches the copper ring behind the steering wheel. I looked at it late last night and it looked like it was touching the copper ring. However, after looking at it again in the light of day I could see it wasn't touching the ring. It is spring loaded and it was slightly sticking. So I cleaned it with some contact cleaner and now it springs back to the ring to make the contact. See pic. In the pic you can see the silver nut that holds the steering wheel on for reference. Thank you Jeff Burk!!! You have been a great help. It was your suggestion to take a look at that copper brush. We were up until midnight working on this. This horn issue was solved because of you.

Many thanks,
Brent
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Brent is the MAN! Good fix, bro. And great pictures!

Give it a good "toot" for me.

 

fweeerfff fwerrrfffff

Nice!

That makes it a really hard fix when it is unrelated to the relay issue!

 

BEEP BEEP!!! Now I will sleep better.

 

Your horn sounds better than my Beep Beep!

 

By the way, Rizzo's post #30 should get a response, but I'm afraid I really don't know much about 308's, so I can't help. I would expect a relay that runs most of the time (like a fuel pump relay) to generate some heat, and I think I have seen threads about the fuse/relay panels on 308's going bad due to overheating at the contacts, but there are people here on FChat who know exactly what to tell you, and I'm not among them. If you start a thread in the Tech section with your question, you should have plenty of responses. Good luck!

 

This thread just showed me something I didn't realise too.....I noticed on one of those superb photo's that the cable entry connectors/blocks have the name 'BURNDY' in the mould, from one of my other interests leisure hobbies I immediately recognised this name as its the manufactured link cable for NAIM AUDIO HIFI (hi end Audio made in Salisbury UK) between CD player and its dedicated Power supply.

 

Been following this thread........great step by step analysis and deduction!

Good show Jeff and Brent!

 

this same thing happened to me...it is a pain in the rear to do with the steering wheel mounted but it can be done! i wish i had the tool to remove the wheel as it would be a 5 minute job to stretch and replace the spring after removing the steering wheel...

 

Almost 20 years later I used this thread to troubleshoot and isolate a horn issue. Now if only I knew how to find which wire on the back of the fuse panel supplied power to relay terminal 85...

 

According to the wiring diagrams, a big red one. 85 and 30 use hot battery power. If you have no power at 85 or 30, you may have relay panel issues. Or a flat/disconnected battery.

 

Actually, the diagrams suggest it's on the front of the panel. Is there a smaller red wire running alongside the main battery terminal on the panel? The horn wire is 6mm^2 in cross-sectional area. Usually the battery terminal is 26mm^2

 

Are you saying terminals 85 and 30 get their power from the same red wire? To be clear my problem is 30 has power but 85 does not. If they get their power from the same red wire then there must be something wrong internally in my fuse panel. I really didn't want to open this thing up.


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I am guessing the main battery terminal is the large black wire in the lower right of my picture above. You can see it's covered to protect you from shorting when installing the panel. There are no wires on the top side of the panel. Everything that goes into the panel can be seen in my picture above.

 

Actually hold up. I made a mistake. I was testing 86 for power because I inversed my drawing looking at the underside of the relay. Let me go test the correct 85.

OK 85 and 30 are both hot. Phew... that was the worst case scenario averted.

I previously plugged the adjacent relay with the same part number into this slot and the horn still didn't work. I know that's only 99% test but I think I have to check other parts of the circuit before bench testing the relay. I checked the circuit at the steering wheel and I can see it going to ground when I press the horn button.