LaFerrari replacement: v12, no hybrid, less power than SF90stradale?

Picture from configurator, must say that new color Rosso Supercar looks very nice. As wrote in my previous posts, by me it is best Ferrari / car of all time. Of course, I wrote it as my opinion ... congrats to everyone 1 of 799 luckiest people on the world.
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As is to be expected there are opposing views regarding the car. I don’t want to change anyone’s mind but thought I’d chime in with why I liked it since I was able to go to the preview. You might disagree but it’s my view so to me, it’s what’s important.

When I first saw it, it was clear that the mules running around were the car standing before us - the mules disguised only the colouring not the form. Some have described the appearance as ‘brutal’. I didn’t think that. My initial reaction was that it was clearly less voluptuous than the LaFerrari but it reminded me of an old-school Le Mans racer. Maybe some think those are brutal but I kind of think they are beautifully aggressive. They are clearly designed for purpose rather than aesthetics but become aesthetically pleasing because of that. F80 is just like that to me. Spending an hour with it, it began to establish itself in my mind. I think it’s that kind of car. Less gentlemanly more purposeful-rogue. The shape has countless details that sit almost below the surface (though obviously not literally). And after a while it feels just right. A new language, not falling into what I believe is a trap like McLaren did with the W1, which is a more modern but uglier version of the decade-old P1.

We learned about the tech before seeing the shape, reinforcing the theme of this car. The tech is interesting. On one level, it is rather like the direction McLaren took with the P1 - turbo hybrid engine, movable rear wing producing high aero, a race mode that allows suspension height movement. The F80 takes this a lot further though, as it should for being over 10 years newer.

We were showed the new battery and hybrid tech. Borrowing knowledge from LM and F1, the car has MGUH and MGUK systems. The battery is 40kg lighter than the LaFerrari’s and seems much better produced and more ‘orderly’ when you look at both with the covers off. 40 kg is a lot of saving but more importantly, it just seems a better thought-through unit. They used the opportunity to talk about ‘Ferrari Forever’, which is to say that a lot of thinking has gone into being able to keep this technology serviceable ‘forever’. I think Ferrari are going beyond being simply a car brand trying to produce a great product. They understand that although the value in their products, per Enzo’s edict’, is that the latest one is always the best, one day these will not be the latest and most modern. And like cars that have already long passed though their production facility, they form a piece of history. The historic products, each of them having lovers and haters, evoke emotions. And they are as relevant to the Ferrari legend as what the factory is selling today. No brand loves its previous models like Ferrari. How ironic that one of the criticisms levelled at the current company is that they are like Apple or too consumed with RACE. For me, they understand what the brand needs to thrive, past and present, and work hard to make sure that however technology moves on, as Enzo knew it always must, what is and will become old technology will always survive and have its proud place in that legend.

The front axle including e-motors also loses 40kg compared to the SF90. 80kg saved in two relatively small components. A much larger component, the engine, seems like an incredible thing. 300hp per litre and the same weight as the 296 engine, yet produces 900hp all on its own. That scarcely seems believable. Ferrari have always been about engines and irrespective of not having 12 cylinders, this unit has class, technology and masses of power. It also has something else that muddies the water when comparing to other cars. The variable torque curve has freed the software people to do some interesting things I suspect. The electric turbochargers plus other components mean that they can break the rules of torque delivery. As I understand it (and those better qualified can chime in) the shove you get in the back is a result of the relation between torque, revolutions and power. These are firmly related to each other in every engine. Ferrari have been playing with this for a while - the V8 turbo engine is a good example. It produces massive torque but artificially limits it in the lower gears to encourage a pleasing n/a feeling as you move through revs and gears. Now, with the electronic turbo, I think they can go both ways - artificially decrease and increase torque. With the skill of their software people, who I believe to be the best in the business, they now have a very interesting new plaything. So while it’s true that the F80 has a ‘mere’ 1,200hp - less than the W1 - that may not be the whole story. The proof will be in the driving and no one has done that yet so we don’t know. But it’s interesting.

There is loads of other tech. The AI generated, 3D printed wishbones are both beautiful and state-of-the-art. The 1+ seating arrangement is a neat idea but really borne of wanting to deliver over 1,000kg of downforce from a car that, let’s face it, does not look as aero-affected as something like a Senna, yet delivers significantly more downforce. The downforce comes from the huge dam underneath the front, possible because of the feet-up driving position, which allows them to balance the front with a much bigger rear wing than we have seen before from Ferrari. The ridges on the front wings allow the aerodynamicists to keep separate the dirty air along the sides from the all-important clean air flowing over the centre of the car and onto the rear wing. The floor generates significant downforce with a larger and longer diffuser than we have seen before, but to really maximise that and keep it consistent they need to keep the body’s relationship with the ground highly controlled. Cue the new suspension. An idea seen before in the hypercar sector with the P1 but taken to a new degree here. Imagine the inter-relational complications with hybrid, torque management, chassis management and body positioning management - all with a highly strung motor out back. These are some clever people if they get it right, which they will.

The narrow cockpit was needed to allow other surfaces and room under the body to help out with this incredible downforce figure. So the 1+ idea seems to be because of that. But what a win-win. The F80 is something else from the inside. I wasn’t sure how they could do something better than the LaFerrari, but they have. It’s certainly snug, but the waistline, the view over the front and out of the sides - including what I thought looked to be a boring side-view mirror on the mules but just isn’t - is really amazing. This will be some car to drive, if only for that view and feeling in the interior. Even compared to the LaF.

There were lots of questions in my mind as we started the evening. But the presentation and the car won me over. When I see the LaF now - possibly the most beautiful modern car to my eye - it looks feline, voluptuous, but lacking presence compared to the picture and feeling in my head from my viewing of the F80. Can you imagine that? I wouldn’t have believed something could make the LaFerrari feel in any way deficient. But in this respect the F80 does. If someone wants to say the LaFerrari is more classically beautiful than the F80, it’s probably right. But there’s just something about the F80 that suits the hypercar thing. As you can tell, I loved it. Black stripe and all.

 

Well said.

 

As always amazing write up, sir, and we thank you!

Regarding the quoted excerpt, I understand that Ferrari has built a new, more advanced, battery for the LaFerrari. They even said that it is not only lighter, but can also provide more juice to the electric motor, thus upping the electrical power, which was battery limited. Do you by any chance have any more information about this?

Cheers!

 

As someone who was there I cannot agree more with all you have said. The new suspensions ability to keep the distance from the road to the belly of the car will be a game changer. Adding in the front spoiler that retracts unto the belly to keep air flow minimal+the rear wing angles, this car should and will exploit all of its power and torque while controlling the downforce where needed. In a straight line, I am sure this car will destroy others, like the W1, knowing at can manage its downforce, like DRS on an F1 car, this car will be slippery. 300HP per liter delivered up in the most manageable/consistent way ever with the introduction of electric turbos. Torque vectoring with the new electric motors on the front wheels. ZERO diving under breaking or lifting under acceleration with the new suspension, all this integrated technology is a huge step forward, not just for Ferrari, but the industry.

As for the presence, spot on, if you have not stood next to the car, spent time with the car, you cannot fully appreciate the car. It makes the LaFerrari feel and look old, which it is now.

Lets remember it takes time to warm up to new automotive styling. When the Enzo launched, it looked to mechanical, now it looks elegant. Give it time...

Additionally, Ferrari never has great specs on their launch cars. Once we start to see some creativity through the Tailor Made department, you will see some unreal F80's. Just compare the launch spec of the 812 Comp vs. customer cars you see now, this is when the cars really start to become something else.

 

I agree with what you say, but if I may, a certain degree of dive/squat is beneficial in terms of mechanical grip as it puts more weight on the axle that needs it the most. Aerodynamically speaking, a flat stance is better. I wonder if the car stays flat in the initial phase of braking (for aero purposes) and then a little dive is dialled in, in order to load the front tyres . The opposite could apply when accelerating.

 

They did not go into this level of detail, but I am sure it does if I had to guess.

 

I think that could be correct but don’t quote me - there were so many details to absorb. What I do know is that the construction of the battery is very different to the LaFerrari. The LaF looked complicated, occupying a large space for the elements within. The F80 is entirely the opposite. This is no ‘upgrade’, it is a complete rethink on how the battery should be designed and manufactured.

 

I like the shape, but not the trim details, if that makes sense. I don't think they're going to sell more 12 Cilindris because of this car, so I don't think the black nose panel was needed or compliments the shape. I do like the profile and tail - I've always loved those 962 LeMans cars and Dauer remakes.

That said, if it were my own money I would rather have an SP3.

 

Yes, I can understand that. One thing I didn’t say in my earlier post. The price and the numbers. To be honest, it’s what I would have done and I seem to remember predicting 799 earlier in the thread. It’s at the limit though. It’s hard to justify nearly 3x LaFerrari. I love the car and have been offered one but I don’t think this will do as well as LaF in the early days. I think this car could be around RRP after a year before settling at between 100% and 125% after 3 years. 10-15 years it will be ok but it seems priced to take full value given the car and the numbers.

 

I would add one cavoite, there are individuals that have the BIG 5, that are not on the list for the F80, if they want the BIG 6, they will have to pay what it takes to acquire the new car.

 

Only 272 people could even have the BIG 5, since the 288 GTO is the rarest. Of course the real number is much lower than that because not all surviving 288 GTOs are owned by people that have the BIG 5. That means the vast majority of allocations don't have the BIG 5, and plenty of them will sell as soon as they can, so those few people with the BIG 5 that did not get an allocation for the F80 will have no issue sourcing one.

I don't know Ferrari values very well, but I think Ferrari decided to sell it for the resale value this time, because why wouldn't they? If some people wanna park their millions in a 288 GTO, F40, F50, Enzo or LaF, let them do it immediately in the F80.

 

The noise is sad, very sad.

https://youtube.com/shorts/NmK0idzrabo?si=27EDuoKp2WzaCQrA

 

There are 2 main disappointment on social media to F80, one is V6 engine, another is the design (black stripe etc.)

Here is my two cents. To start with a halo car project, there should be a rivalry to set as a performance target. Return to 2018, which hypercar will appears in Ferrari Design Team’s head to beat with? I compared some hypercars data and got the result.

The only rivalry could only be the F1 inspired AMG ONE. Both of them got the MUGH & K system. And also AWD. That’s the main reason Ferrari must choose the V6 499P engine which is their only winning engine to compete with Mercedes F1 winning engine PU106B in the last decade.

To me, this is a clear win for Ferrari as this engine shown its durability in Lemans and didn’t need to worry it has start/stop issue on normal road like AMG. Also, this is the only choice rather than V12 to keep the weight down in order to install the hybrid system, active suspension etc. Both cars are in similar weight at the end.

In terms of performance, Ferrari shown its determination to beat its rivalry from 0-100km/h & 0-200km/h. 0-300km/h will be interesting.

No matter what, normal people will still disappoint on mis-ROAR V6 engine and what Ferrari need to do is put its new hypercar on Nürburgring and beat the AMG ONE. That will be a huge & solid statement for all haters.

Attached are some data comparison between AMG ONE & F80.
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Agree.

 

Nice and interesting post. When you look at the stats, the Ferrari should be quicker at the Nurburgring, despite Mercedes posting an incredible lap time. I guess it doesn’t always work that way but can’t think why it wouldn’t.

 

Wow. That’s really bad.

 

soon there will be Ferrari fake sound generator

 

noise is a lot worse than expected, I think with ferrari going very track focused for this they should absolutely attempt a ring time

someone here mentioned ferrari have a sf90xx ring time but haven't released it yet - perhaps they'll do both at the same time>?

 

There was a recording of the noise played at the reveal event. It was a good sound. Less race car more road car but nicer than the V8s. The only thing you couldn’t tell was the volume because it was a recording. You have the EU to thank for whatever volume comes out of it. But that video is likely misleading. What we know for sure, it won’t be as loud as the LaFerrari.

 

Indeed the EU is to thank for the lack of volume. As I just mentioned in the other thread, to comply to the current EU regulations (per September 2024), for example the new 992.2 GT3 has four catalytic converters plus two gasoline particulate filters. So that's two cats and one gpf per bank of cylinders. The F80 will be similar if not identical. Not much noise gets past that. It's either that or no ICE at all. And it's not cost-effective to come up with a different exhaust system for the rest of the world, despite the absurd price tag of the F80.