I would think someone out there that makes carbon parts would just make molds from these and reproduce them
Or just write a disclaimer like every other aftermarket part. Not for street use. Not FIA certified for use in racing. For display purposes only.
Were OMP VID seats only offered in 355 challenge? Seems unlikely, so the correct tactic may be to just ask OMP to make a run of VID Carbon seats and leave the Ferrari part out of it... Or ask them to make a run of ARS-R in Carbon instead of fiberglass. Or get the RT Carbon FIA seats if you actually want to use the car.
OMP VID were offered for other cars in the 90’s, but mostly in fiberglass and a few rare ones in carbon-kevlar (yellow). Even these VIDS in general are hard to find. They were more 348 Challenge style with smaller belt hoops and a shorter thigh pad. OMP VIDCarbon was specifically produced for the 355 Challenge. Carbon fiber (black). Larger belt hoops. Longer/larger thigh pad. Some came with “Ferrari Challenge,” some came with just OMP. This specific look was never sold outside of 355 Challenge spec and is the one most associated with the 355 Challenge. I don’t believe OMP is interested in producing 90’s style VIDS anymore. They don’t even have replacement belt hoops for them. Every OMP carbon seat they offer now is in “twill” weave carbon. Challenge seats were plain weave carbon. Same as in modern Ferraris. Maybe it’s just me, but 348/355 Challenge VID seats were the best designs from OMP. Everything they offer now is overstyled. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
So let’s rewind here. This gentleman in Europe purchased another 355 challenge for the OMP seats and sent them to Ferrari Classiche to get re-covered. How much did this man spend to get period correct seats in his 355 Challenge? Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
Not sure why the obsession to make that correct but then put incorrect CF door panels in...His car, so his money, but seems a monumental waste for an incorrect car.
I don’t see anything wrong with his door cards. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
Right, Ken. The door cards were optional and Do It Yourself to cut down on weight. My car still has its OEM door panels.
Nothing, but those weren't factory, just like seats were swapped during the series when actively raced, why go to that kind of trouble for original seats but then not have the original door cards?
The door cards are up for debate. They weren’t factory, but there was a drawing of it in the rule book and specifically allowed from the get-go. If one doesn’t like the carbon door cards, fine… there are a million factory door cards on Ebay. Same can’t be said for the OMP seats. They have factory part #’s and were part of the challenge kit. Rules allowed for different seats (not sure when), but that doesn’t change the above. Only reason someone would go through the effort and $$$ is because it irked him not having 355 challenge seats in the car. Why it irked him? You’d have to ask him, but I’ll speculate by saying he liked how the seats looked in the car, that is his perceived image of a 355 challenge car with the original kit fitted. If Ferrari made a glamour poster of the car, it would be equipped with those seats. It is the image Ferrari had for the car. Expired seats, driver preference, etc… forced Ferrari to allow alternative seats. I have no clue who this person is. I’m not spitting in his ear and it is very likely he has not come across my posts. He came to this conclusion on his own and I’m sure enough share similar sentiments as it appears no one is willing to dump their original OMP seats on the market. Elliot sent me the article yesterday, so it’s not like I woke up and decided to discuss challenge seats out of the blue. My impression reading the article was the gentleman was after the best 355 challenge example he could find as a trophy car with perhaps occasional use to add to his collection. He wanted OMP seats for his viewing pleasure. That’s his prerogative. Key is he was willing to pay whatever amount to have them. He shares similar sentiments as I do. If I’m buying the car for viewing pleasure, I want to be staring at original 355 OMP challenge seats, not 430 Scuderia seats just because Ferrari allowed any seat to be installed for racing. Put 2 cars together with identical specs and asking price. One car has misc Momo seats, the other car has a pair of original 355 OMP seats, 9 out of 10 times the buyer will choose the car with OMP seats. Drop the price on the car with Momo seats, then it might be a toss up.
To add to that, I for one think it is an extra special bonus to sit in a car with great looking bucket seats no other car has with the closest being a 348 Challenge with kevlar seats and different belt hoops. The visual and physical experience is exclusive to the 355 challenge.
Permit me to chime in here. Ken, I'll need to see pictures of the car's console, radio delete plate and what's mounted on it, and a clear view of the instrument binnacle. My car came to me in 2012 with its original omp VID CARBON Challenge seats with 1995 Production Dates... Image Unavailable, Please Login These early VID CARBON seats have the narrower harness loops as Ken previously described. The headrests are a bit shorter too and are simply embroidered "Ferrari challenge..." Image Unavailable, Please Login A previous owner had red NOMEX seat covers made for them so the seats still look nice today. However, last year I retired these seats and replaced them with omp ARS-R seats... Image Unavailable, Please Login My original seats were twenty-three years beyond their expiration dates and were not safe anymore. Yes, I waited way too long to replace them. That should have been done when I bought the car. While I was at it, I replaced my expiring red omp harnesses with blue Sabelt harnesses... Image Unavailable, Please Login ...for that color-coordinated look... Image Unavailable, Please Login
I think you made the right choice, the car is usable. If you had the ars-r seats recovered in red with Ferrari challenge script you'd have 95% of the looks with no concern about safety and usability, but like you I wouldn't bother, they look great as is with the sabelt belts. It's clear I value a functional car over one that looks good on display but isn't usable, but understand there are different viewpoints. Luckily there are enough if these cars to have functional ones and museum pieces both. That poor 355 comp in the Ferrari museum pains me though, I'd much rather see it being exercised.
The good news is that most of those cars are simply on loan and rotate right on through back into the hands of the owners.
Right, Pete. the color-coordinated look suits my car. The Sabelt harnesses with their aluminum hardware are more easily adjusted than were the omp belts. For performance, my car now has adjustable Penske shocks, Hypercoil springs and Eibach helpers... Image Unavailable, Please Login The seats, fuel sampler (a fire hazard), Challenge springs, shocks and actuators all went into storage. I haven't inspected the VID Carbon Seats for micro-cracks. I'm sure I'll find some.
Some might have heard the argument 355 Speedline magnesium wheels have a racing shelf life as well. Perhaps those should be changed out with some 5 Spoke HRE’s (or whatever popular wheel brand) for safety in extreme driving conditions. You’ll get 95% of the look (debatable). Now imagine an alternate reality where 355 Speedline wheels are as scarce as 355 challenge OMP seats. More than 75% of 355 challenge cars are missing them. What will that do to the value of “unusable” 355 challenge speedline wheels and the few challenge cars that still have them? It’s not hard to imagine the cars that still have them will be deemed more desirable/valuable all else equal as it plays a big part in the visual appeal of the car. The parts are still usable for the street. If you’re gonna go racing, swap them out. Key is to still have them as they might be used on the car for viewing or street driving pleasure when the car isn’t racing. The Speedlines are exclusive to the 348/355 challenge cars (non centerlock). Gives the car it’s unique and distinguished look. My bet is most give equal value to seats and wheels when it comes to the overall visual package of the car. Try selling a 288 GTO or F50 with unobtanium missing seats. Particular buyers will place higher value on cars with the parts. Usable or not. F40LM has composite bucket seats as well.
Shrug, could just put repro speedlines from eg augment in that case. Similar to putting omp ars-r or carbon fia seats and then having then recovered. I'd pay slightly more for a car with the new stuff tbh. But, like I said, I value usability over a static display.
People don’t even buy repro Speedlines from Speedline. That’s how particular buyers can be. When was the last time someone bought aluminum Speedline repro wheels? I’d pay alot more for a car with the original stuff. I have no qualms driving it on the street or occasionally on the track, so that is far from a static display. No sense in paying more for a car with new stuff that can be purchased readily with a phone call and credit card. I’d rather have unobtanium highly desirable original parts than not have it. I can have after-market wheels and seats for $6k on the car in 2 weeks. The F40LM brake calipers are probably tired too. Probably need a refresh. Who’s gonna pay more for a 355 challenge with missing F40LM’s swapped for brand new Stoptech brakes?? Composite parts made correctly don’t deteriorate over time. Store a carbon bucket in a room and pull it out in 50 years and it will be exactly the same as you left it. It could deteriorate if you left outside in extreme weather for 15+ years. A bucket seat could deteriorate overtime by extreme use perhaps better measured in racing hours. Problem is, it is nearly impossible for FIA to measure a seat by use time, so they simply set an expiration on all seats. The reality is, not all challenge seats were subject to the same track hours. Shoot, one of my seats was in 9 out of 10 condition. Probably used a few times and stored away. But yes, for racing I would still change out the seat to preserve the original and get into something more comfortable and bespoke.
The resins do deteriorate over time even when stored in perfectly stable conditions. I would not do any laps at pace with very expired safety equipment. Bad safety equipment can do more harm than good. "The reason composite seats have expiration dates is because the resins used in laminating the seat and the fibers can lose structural integrity over a period of time. / 'The composites and resins inside the seat shell do break down. / They don’t exactly become brittle, but they can be weakened. The seat’s not going to fall apart on its own, but in a severe, high impact G, it’s more susceptible to crack.'” Source I agree that the original stuff is important to have for collectability and visual appeal, especially since very few people these days are buying F355 Challenge cars to actually use as intended. Keeping the original safety equipment installed is like driving around with original, 30yr old tires. They have a purpose for show cars, but really shouldn't be tested in actual use.
If the new replacement parts cost $6k, that's probably the max of what I'd pay for the original stuff. Otherwise I'd put the new, higher quality stuff on. Same reason I have Hill tensioner bearings and TO bearing in my car. OK, maybe I'd pay $1k more to have the correct seatbelt hole in the seats. Maybe, but probably not if I'm honest. For the F40 LM calipers, yeah if I had them in hand I'd rebuild them. If I were looking to buy to put on my car, I'd probably get functionally equivalent new Brembos if the same price or cheaper, especially if I wanted to track the car I'd prefer the new stuff, honestly. It's funny you bring up the Speedlines, 12 years ago when I got mine I had that same dilemma - originals for $5k or new ones for `$9k. If the new ones were the same price or even within a grand, I'd have gone with them precisely because I could be sure they weren't cracked, though mine had been x-rayed, repaired and refinished. I certainly would not have paid more for originals.
https://carbonfibergear.com/blogs/carbonfiber/carbon-fiber-durability#:~:text=However%2C%20some%20factors%20do%20influence,last%20for%20over%2050%20years. “At its most basic form, carbon fiber is carbon graphite, which will last virtually forever. The material is typically not photo-degradable or biodegradable. However, some factors do influence its durability, like its matrix. Furthermore, the intense use of composites and environmental factors could affect its durability and potential applications. In general, scientists anticipate carbon fiber parts to last for over 50 years.” So what kind of environmental factors are we talking here? Mainly extensive exposure to UV, heat, and moisture. https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9371162/ Cracks in a racing seat are of concern due extensive use. It’s not the just the carbon, but metal hardware embedded in the seat, which is difficult to evaluate without X-raying it. “The FIA and SFI create the standards, certify that manufacturers are meeting the standards and defend the standards if their validity is called into question. If a sanctioning body such as SVRA quotes any SFI or FIA standard in their rule book and fully complies with the standard, then the FIA standard can be used as a solid defense. SFI will go so far as to assist in the defense in the event of an accident and litigation. However, if a sanction body does not fully enforce the specified standard, such as allowing SFI belts to be used for more than 2 years, then the sanctioning body is in direct violation of the SFI standard and SFI will no longer support the sanctioning body in the event of litigation. Further it is likely that a good lawyer could claim gross negligence for not enforcing a stated standard. The metal hardware in a race seat undergoes numerous cycles of loading/unloading during its life time and it is impossible to certify that the hardware is still valid without X-raying each component for cracks. For this reason, it is highly recommended that the entire seat belt assembly is replaced at the end of its life and the hardware not be used again.” Source: https://www.schrothracing.com/post/sfi-and-fia-seat-belt-standards-and-expiration-dates#:~:text=Further%20it%20is%20likely%20that,expiration%20dates%20of%20the%20belts. A carbon bucket stored in a room away from UV, heat, moisture isn’t subject to the above.
