Ferrari F80

I really appreciate your commitment, even if we have contrary opinions.
My answer is addressed to all readers and you are not being accused
Because in the history of Ferrari, the only road car before the 296 that had this engine was the Dino.... and under this "Dino" brand because the founder judged that a 6-cylinder engine should not bear the "Ferrari" badge.
So, it's totally uncorrelated from the history of the brand (after that we can always re-write everything).
If you add to that the lack of nobility inherent in all turbo vs NA engines, and that the basis is that of a 296 (not the one in Leclerc's F1...), then that it's in a hypercar that comes out on average every decade, and the price is indescent for this whole package... Well, in the end you get a very disappointing product.
Let's stop saying that the Valkyrie is not so good, because it's false, since the two cars will do a maximum of 500 kilometers per year, and that it's better to do them to the sound of a V12 at 12000 rpm!! The Valkyrie represents what we expect from a hypercar, the F80 next to it appears in all ways very marketed and mediocre overall. The F80 ensures the transition with the electric, its Alpha status allowing to legitimize the future Beta... It also has the sound of an electric one, that is to say none... Personally, I find you all very brave to spend 4 Millions on it...

 

I would shut up once ferrari releases that 4wd iphone 16 pro max (aka Ferrari Elkann E1 Pro Max V1.2.311321). That would be a middle finger and the last nail on enzo's coffin. I would have never imagined in a few years ago that ferrari will go down this route to be brutally honest. The F80 is like a doomsday clock for the brand.

 

While everyone is entitled to their own opinion... some of this rhetoric is a little extreme.

How much reading have you done on Enzo and LDM? If you have done any genuine reading on the core elements of the Ferrari brand you would know Ferrari is about racing... Ferrari SPA is a whole different kettle of fish mind you.

The Scuderia is winning races and has a chance of winning the constructors championship.
The Hypercar has won back to back LeMans and could win the WEC driver's championship this weekend.
The 296 GT3/E has been collecting wins everywhere and Challenge series is thriving,

All while the company is making billions.

Enzo sold cars so he could win races... that was the core essence of Ferrari. He made elegant sporty GT's and the fastest most usable sports cars to the wealthiest people in the world. Then use the proceeds to win on track.

The design direction is questionable but the Brand? Dude come on... it has never been stronger.

 

Ah, I'm reassured, everything is fine then!!! I can't wait for the next 4-cylinder quad-turbo with 3 electric motors in homage to the Monza, I can't wait to buy the future cars of this brand which has never been so fabulous in terms of production offer !!!
Can't wait to write the check for the 2 EVs too !
In the end I was worried for nothing...

 

I don’t say the Valkyrie is not a great car. But I never wanted one and prefer the F80. I couldn’t be doing with all the nonsense that goes with the Valk. Whereas the F80 seems a natural extension of the Ferrari hyper line. We have known it would have a V6 engine for years now. That has always meant the soundtrack would be less than the LaFerrari. Plus, the noise legislation is different as has been discussed.

In the end, to me, it’s rather simple. As in every period of its existence, Ferrari has to interpret the technology and regulations of the day into a package that buyers of premium sports cars will buy. This is how they have done that for the F80. It’s only a choice, as it ever was. In the past, one of Enzo’s customers didn’t like the way he did business. So he rebelled and started Lamborghini. The brand has nearly been bankrupt on repeated occasions, meaning not enough people would pay enough money to buy what he built. And there have been plenty of cars criticised, including both F50 and Enzo, cars now worth multiple times their original price and both possessing V12 engines. The turbocharged F40 was well received so I suppose people were less bothered about it not having a V12 or even a n/a engine.

So Ferrari management have one task. Keep the brand healthy and relevant as time passes. I think they are doing that, within the constraints placed on them especially by regulators.

Then we get to choose. Is it enough for us or not? Some will say ‘not’ as others move through to take their place in the story of this amazing company.

I don’t know why we all get so excited. It is what it is. If you don’t like it, keep the older cars. Arguing about it is pointless because we’ll all see if it works.

 

It's a little different today, because for the first time in history it's a regression. The regulations exist but the strategy and the product plan could have been different.
What prevents him is that Ferrari wants to make as much money as possible by recycling and selling the finished product at the highest price.
I don't understand how this can be legitimized, it remains a mystery to me...

 

Why would they have made the F80 a V12 when they still are making the SP3? That would make no sense.

 

The Ferrari F80 harks back, with a very close connection, to the 499P, a prototype racing car winner of 2 editions of the 24 Hours of Le Mans. The architecture of the F80 3.0 liter V6 engine, delivering 900 hp, the hybrid system and many of its components, are closely derived from the 499P. As with previous models such as the F50, the F80 once again confirms Ferrari's philosophy of transferring its racing know-how to a limited-series road legal hypercar. The F80 really has a racing DNA and if there was any doubt about that, the Fiorano lap time of 1:15.30, two seconds less than the SF 90XX Stradale, is a devastating proof.

Heir to the various GTOs, F40, F50, Enzo and LaFerrari, for purists the F80 is a bit tangled and does not appeal to the eyes and heart with the same fluidity as most of its predecessors. Interestingly, the F80 was originally conceived strictly as a single-seater just like the 499P but in the end they added a passenger seat probably to make it more usable on the road. When I look at the two cars side by side in the picture below, aesthetically my preference goes to the 499P because it is a pure and genuine winning racing machine. Flavio Manzoni aesthetic definition of the F80 is an UFO on wheels and I completely agree.




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A Ferrari V12 never doesn't make sense.

 

As much as our opinions differ on this point, thank you for answering my question, Sir.

 

It's true. I love to see the Scuderia winning again at Le Mans, and in F1. I think the connection between road and racing car is fantastic, and the way it should be. And the engines in these cars are truly remarkable engineering achievements.

That said, these achievements are in the context of regulatory frameworks that emphasize efficiency as much - or more than - performance. And the result is a generation of racing cars that don't particularly excite me.

It leaves me somewhat ambivalent about the technology in this car.

I agree. I think the 499P is quite beautiful. It's interesting - a common explanation for the F80's rather brutalist lines is that it's the inevitable outcome of its aerodynamic mandate, a reflection of form following function.

And yet the 499P - where you would expect far fewer concessions in the interest of aesthetics - still looks organic and flowing and curvaceous. Purposeful, and yet still somehow almost feminine.

I'm not as offended by the F80's style as some seem to be (other than the goofy hamburgler mask). But I doubt I'll ever find it beautiful. It would have benefited from borrowing a few more cues from its sibling...

 

I think you're generally right about the realities of the world Ferrari is planning for. But to me, that's a very bleak future for the automobile.

I wish Ferrari would focus its energy on forestalling that future. But I know that's naive, particularly in a post-IPO world.

 

all this makes my F40 feel like a bargain

 

The SP series cars are exactly this.

 

The SP cars are wonderful, at least the first three. And Ferrari deserves a ton of credit for building them.

I was referring to other choices, like investing in EVs rather than developing a new V12, increasingly quiet exhausts even in markets that don't require them, a hyper car with only six cylinders, etc. I know such things may be forced upon them by a mix of regulations and evolving consumer preferences. But I'd prefer to see Ferrari push back against these trends rather than (at least publicly) embrace them.

Ferrari is an incredibly influential cultural institution. For better or worse, they help define what's cool and desirable for the general public. Embracing these shifts early is probably the right business decision. But it will accelerate this transformation in automotive culture.

 

F80 has amazing perf. and racing heritage but we don't care because there is no substitute to 12 cylinders (and beauty).

After more than 20 years loving the F140.. WE ALL WANT A NEW V12!

Period.

 

it's don't need to be V12, it's need to be without turbo, V10 or V8 with red line around 10k, but Ferrari don't need to do this because turbo V6 and V8 have very good sales numbers and generate a lot of profit, only victims are some members of this board whom cry in other threads how fast 296 and SF90 loseing value ....

 

Well, apart from all considerations, passion and different tastes, if Apple is doing the same with great profit, why should other Carmakers not try the same route, from economical perspective? As all other companies, ultimate goal is profitability...I miss Luca, but he won't come back, as Felisa, as well as the old Finali Mondiali, unfortunately.I'm still happy that De Simone is still there testing and imprinting new cars, not on style, but on driving dynamics.
At the end of the day, cars are becoming smartphone on wheels, so let me say we'll miss even F80, F8 and even quite uninspiring 12 C carbody design style, when soon all cars in the world will be Chinese EV, aka smartphone on wheels at the maximum level.
Who can should buy 812 / F12 TDF / FXXK/ 458 Speciale and keep it forever.

 

Not only a bargain but a timeless, beautiful, epic car. Hope you’re enjoying it!

 

Let's see if they buy phase 2 of its two models...

 

I agree the curvy lines of the 499P are aesthetically pleasing to the eye and look quite feminine. Although the 499P is a non-street legal race car, as the video below shows it was driven through the streets of Maranello without any problems.
If Ferrari was able to offer the 499P Modificata for non-competitive use on the track, it seems to me that if it had wanted to, it could have also presented a road legal version. The F80 probably has a lower Fiorano's lap time than the 499P, making it in practice a more track-oriented road legal car. Therefore, we would not be shocked if the connection that already exists between the engine architecture and components of the 499 P and the F80 were also extended to the body lines. IMO it would have made a lot of sense.

 

I think you alluded to it in your earlier post. It’s not realistic to think that Ferrari will or even can do that. I often think that politicians are guilty of believing that the government can solve all problems. And they use that to persuade people to vote for them. Then reality kicks and everyone realises they just made it worse! I’m of the Warren Buffett school of thinking, better to stay in your lane. In other words, nobody, even Ferrari, should over-estimate the ability with which they can do what they like, no matter how strong or influential they are.

Working in the auto industry in Europe, this is extremely hard. I have been an industry participator for nearly 40 years and I can’t remember a time where it has been harder to predict the world into which you must sell future products. Usually you can count on logic - which is predictable - to guide you through. If you know enough parameters you can extrapolate how the market will change and what you need to do about it ahead of time. Now, governments and their policies drive market mechanics. And when the policies don’t work they change them. Well, when they lose their tax revenue. If companies or businesses get screwed in the meantime, that’s usually seen as tough luck. Their policies rarely make sense and almost always achieve the opposite of what they intend.

I’ll give a very current example. The UK has adopted in 2024 a piece of policy called the ZEV mandate (Zero Emission Vehicles). In their wisdom (yes, I don’t mean wisdom at all in case you were wondering) they decided that if they left it to market forces, not enough people would convert to EVs by the time of the ICE ban. So they ought to get involved. That’s the first mistake. It doesn’t matter how many ICE vehicles are sold in the final year, come the ban, nobody will have ICE stock to sell and every manufacturer/supplier is in the same boat - their offer to customers is EV or nothing. The market would fall a bit but it would quickly recover and every manufacturer knows where they stand. Therefore, no need for additional policy.

Instead they decide they should intervene and force manufacturers and suppliers into an ever increasing sales level of EVs - i.e. beyond customer demand - and an ever decreasing supply of ICE - i.e. below demand, in the years leading up to the ban. This so they can, y’ know, get people used to the idea of driving EVs and make sure there is not too large a gap to bridge by the time the final year arrives. So let’s use some very basic economics, the sort of thing you get taught in the first Economics lesson at about the age of 12. Supply > demand, price goes down. Supply < demand, price goes up.

“Excellent” say the policy makers. We want EVs to be cheaper. What a good plan.” Until you realise you just torpedoed the EV market price, into which you are asking manufacturers to develop all their cars, spending billions in the process and now facing the prospect of no financial return. At the same time as that, you also made any ICE allocation more valuable to the customer because guess what happens to his residual? Yep, it goes through the roof. And the EV residual goes the through the floor. Now work out what customers will do! Then you arrive at the following year, where the ICE allocations are further reduced and the EV-push is even stronger.

This policy in one year has destroyed EV residuals and when customers realise they will not be able to freely buy ICE cars, well, you remember the toilet roll thing in Covid!

We have a new government. In my opinion they are not very good. The last one was also not very good. Will they make the right decisions to change the situation - they easily could? No. I may hope, but I don’t think they are able to extract themselves from what they want to believe for long enough. So I think there will be some kind of mess but it’s hard to predict when and what kind of mess. And will it cause them to moderate their intentions for full EV take-up?

Then think about what a luxury sports car manufacturer makes of all that as it is trying to work out what on earth to do in the future. That e-factory flexibility could prove to be very valuable to Ferrari if they want to stay in business.

 

I think there is a lot of influence from the 499P styling in the F80. But obviously, lots has to change for a hyper car. For example, the doors and therefore the car sides. Nobody is going to climb over the bodywork to get into their ‘dirty’ F80 in their normal clothes. It’s just not practical. Then crumple zones, the lack of an engineering team to travel with you, the need for reliability on the road instead of the track etc. Given all that, it’s quite close to the 499P I think.

 

I agree that there is a lot of influence from the 499P on the F80. However, when it comes to the styling, to my eyes the two cars look very different and the 499P seems to be more cohesive. In relation to the front section of the F80, which is the part of the car that I dislike more, the curvier front section of the 499P IMO is more attractive. Regarding the design of the side of the F80, even taking into account the fact you mentioned that its doors for practicality reasons have to be quite different from those of the 499P, what it seems to me is that it is a bit tangled and could have been better done.

 

The F80 is a phenomenal piece of kit. No question. I cant believe any true petrol head would pass the opportunity to have a go in one. I also won’t challenge Ferraris choices re powerplant - although I would obviously prefer a V12 for historical reasons.

But lets be clear - trying to justify the V6 powertrain for its performance advantages given all the concessions made to practicality is unreasonable.

My other issue is the price and number produced. It seems very high and will be a clear test of the market at these levels. I would not be surprised to see some depreciation which is not unusual for Ferrari hypercars in the early years (288, F40, F50).