Ferrari F80

Thank you for the also thoughtful reply. I find I agree with most of what you say, we are not far apart really, except maybe I like the look of the F80 more. I guess my main thing is since I know Ferrari are restricted on exhaust noise in Europe, I’m not going to worry about it too much. Our GT4 RS and Spyder RS have both been eye-opening cars in terms of what the future can still be. The cup engine is much quieter in these cars in terms of exhaust noise than earlier applications, for example 991 GT3 RS. But the in-cabin noise is simply insane, feels like 3x the sound of the current GT3 RS. I have never bothered pressing the sport exhaust button in either car because it would basically make no or very little difference to what I would hear in the drivers seat. The mechanical and induction noises you mentioned are the best noises and easier to hear inside the car. As you said, you have to open windows to really hear the exhaust to its best.

As for the F80, hopefully it possesses a decent enough noise from inside the cabin. We’ll see.

By the way, as often happens I used my reply to your earlier post to make some general points raised in the wider thread, not aimed at you or anyone in particular.

 

Image Unavailable, Please Login

Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

I think the point is the reverse. Everybody understands it’s ok to not like the sound or layout or looks or even performance of the F80. And that Ferrari, despite being the most successful, is far from perfect. But there is an already well-established pattern where many people who start off disliking a car end up liking it at a later date. Whereas those who currently dislike the car on fchat do give the impression they believe it is unreasonable or even bad judgment for a person to like the car, because ‘how could any sensible person like it when it looks, sounds, is powered like that?’ Isn’t that how you feel?

 

If I was a billionaire, that's definitely what I would pick! Don't get the mustache at all.

I would say I'm in love with the design otherwise, but without the mustache, I can definitely imagine it growing on me. There are some angles I really like already.

 

I hear both perspectives, to varying degrees, sprinkled throughout the thread. And I think they're equally unfair.

Liking the car does not make you a traitor who fails to appreciate Ferrari's history.

Disliking the car does not make you a philistine, who will inevitably find enlightenment.

Reasonable people really can disagree!

 

I didn't take it that way, don't worry. Just enjoying the back and forth.

 

Totally agree with you on this one. The problem begins when people expressing the opinion that there is much more to a car than its engine sound (or whatever else for that matter) get disparaged by people who think they possess the Papal Infallibility and thus know best. There is nothing wrong with liking certain aspects of a car, but plenty wrong dismissing what others like about a car.

 

I will say after looking at the F80 for a while now it reminds me of an unfinished Lego car

 

It is more like make the F80 not "Two-Toned" in order to make it look better. Manzoni is obsessed with carbon or black panels for an unknown reason. It makes the car look bad at trying hard to be a pagani zonda(one of the cars that looked good with a two-toned color scheme). Floating A-pillar(288, 296 & Enzo) look might have made it better.

 

In the 12 Cilindri thread there are grown men talking as they were the standard in good taste but they like the F12 uterus and Nike swipe. Pathetic: if you liked the uterus then I can like the moustache.

 

SOME MEMORIES AND CONSIDERATIONS ABOUT THE SOUND OF F1 ENGINES

I have followed F1 for many years. Between 1987 and 1994 I had the privilege of following F1 very closely every year at the Estoril grand prix as a guest of the Williams team. On Fridays and Saturdays of these eight editions, I spent many hours in the pits watching the cars and listening to their engines. I remember when in 1987-1988 all engines were V6 turbocharged with the exception of the V8 Ford-Cosworth NA whose sound was clearly different and better from all the others. I also remember when turbos were banned from 1989 and a new era of incredible sound began with the visceral McLaren's Honda V10, Williams' Renault V10 and Ferrari's V12 just to name a few. Listening to these engines zoom past me right on top of the straight was a unique and unrepeatable sensory and audio experience that I cannot describe in words. F1 experience at that time was a mix of performance and sound in which the decibels were sometimes so high that required the use of ear plugs. It was also sadness and Ayrton Sena's death was something that shocked me deeply as I had been with him in Estoril a few months before it happened.

In 2014 it all changed, V6 turbo engines were reintroduced into F1, but this time they were hybrid. For longtime fans like myself used to the raw and high revving sound of the NA V8s, V10S and V12s, the flat and low pitched sound of the V6s turbo hybrids is obviously a disappointment in acoustic terms and also in terms of the overall sensory experience of an F1 race alive. F1 has always been a kind of laboratory and many of the technologies used by Ferrari in its road cars are derived from it. Therefore the F80's hypercar power train is an inevitability that follows the racing world fashion trend.

FIA has new rules for F1 engines from 2026 and turbocharged 1.6 V6 will be retained but with a 50/50 split between ICE and electrical power which means more electrification. They also will be tearing down the MGU-H complex and massively upgrading the MGU-K. The new engines are allowed to rev higher than the previous V6 but will this have any positive influence on the sound we hear ? I'm not very optimistic about the outcome but hope is the last thing to die.

 

Yes, that's definitely part of how I feel. I've been passionate about Ferrari since I was 14 years old, and I don't criticize 47.Je for the sake of polemics, but because I don't approve of the economic vision of building at a low cost, as is the case now. In the case of the F80, it's more the content than the shape that bothers me. A concrete example beyond the engine, Manzoni asks to invest in headlights and lights as Aston Martin did with its superb and very qualitative blades, we get a recycling of Valéo at a low price that we see since the Monza.This approach exasperates me, and I only think I defend our common passion, being myself very far from being an F80 customer. I try to be constructive and I would like to see real quality and no dusting. When you see the 12C, it's a great success but it could have been better with nice front and rear blades. Ferrari is looking to do the cheapest, it's an approach against which I am criticized, and for our common interest, you to have the best version and me to rub shoulders with it. I am also critic about my F12, because I still haven't understood why Manzoni made such headlights much less elegant than the first version. He judged the car as the pinnacle of elegance and intervened in the wrong way. I say it again and again, what is missing at Ferrari is a guiding thread where someone knows what a Ferrari should be, not the synthesis of the different visions of each one or the last one who speaks rightly !

 

No problem, it's reproctory, it's just a generalist remark. While we're on the subject of headlights and lights, Aston has done a remarkable job on theirs, both in quality and design, and installs them on 200k€ cars !!! In my opinion Ferrari should return to a modern circular shape like we see on those of the "Valour", and which in rupture with the rear blades works very well...

 

I cannot understand why so many people dislike 80’s black line while they love 812 Competizione’s.

 

I agree that the new F1 cars sound lackluster at best. But I don't believe that hybrids are the culprit. The electrification added some odd sounds that some people like, some dislike, and many are indifferent to. But those sounds would be drowned out if the ICEs weren't so quiet.

The main culprits are the fuel limits, and in particular the fuel flow limit. It's dumb. It means that there's no incentive to rev the car higher than 9-10k RPM because the engines can't generate more power from more revs without more fuel flow. All in the name of dubious green credentials and perhaps some cost savings for the manufacturers. Higher revs would not have held back development of the other tech. But they would have preserved more of the spectacle.

Without the fuel flow limits, the engines would have been designed to rev to the moon. Muffled, perhaps, because of the turbos. And maybe you wouldn't like the V6. But they would have screamed. If they could get 19k revs out 300cc per cylinder in the V10 era, imagine what they could do today with barely over 250cc and another 15yrs of development!

I hope that the 2026 changes unleash them. I share your skepticism and your hope.

 

You mean the element bisecting the 812 Comp's hood? I never loved that either, but it didn't bother me as much. It doesn't dominate the design in the way the black trim on the F80 and 12C does.

It's also funny that you mention it. Since the launch of the 12C and F80, I find myself liking the 812 Comp a bit less. Don't get me wrong, I still love it. But previously I saw the black trim as a quirky, functional element. Now when I see it, I see the first signs of a new design language that I dislike. I hope it's a short lived fad.

 

Of course you can! I completely agree with you, your opinion of the mustache and anything else about the cars is no more or less valid than mine.

I hope I never give the impression that I think otherwise. I realize that others do at times. And if I've ever given that impression, I apologize.

 

This is a good listen.

Especially at 17:43.

 

When he mentioned LamborghiniKS, I stopped watching.

 

They’re quoting some guy called LamborghiniKS who supposedly speaks for all the collectors! Sounds kinda funny.There are something like 6 at our dealership, none disliked it at the reveal though a couple weren’t keen on the black stripe. Price/volume will prove to be the F80’s biggest problem in my opinion, something not disclosed at the reveal which had a very positive outcome for Ferrari in terms of customer opinion. I think that would have applied with a V12 engine too.

 

Higher cost basis and greater volumes are big headwinds for profitable sales on the secondary market.

Hopefully most buyers won't dwell on that. Just go out and have fun with it!

 

Unlike N/A engines, turbocharged ones don't necessarily benefit from extra revs (they benefit more from intake pressure), so it wouldn't be that efficient for them to rev that high. Also, such high revs would require more intake air thus larger turbos, as well as a much heavier construction to be able to handle the combined internal forces of forced air and high rotational speeds. In other words, that wouldn't happen, even without the fuel flow limit. Today's F1 engine rev up to 12+k RMP. It is doubtful that the 2026 engines will rev any higher.

 

That is my view too. I think for 18 months (ROFR contract length) it will be above list. After that it will be at or below until about 5 years out when it will go above again. LaF was actually similar but from a much lower starting point so it was always above list just to varying degrees. The headwinds of high price and volume, plus high interest rates and relatively weaker economies (UK certainly) will hurt this car. Except, if it drops, say, to £2m, the people who bought it won’t sell because they don’t want the loss. Which means that lack of supply will keep it much nearer to list (but still below once the car reaches the “I’m bored with it” period - there will be a premium for getting back the cash and just moving on). In other words, usual market dynamics may look different simply because most of the original clientele have a different economy. I don’t think many cars will go to clients who will end up in the position of needing to sell whatever the price. My guess is F80 will settle about £500k behind LaFerrari for a few years. I.e. around list price without options.

Maybe Trump/Musk will help! Actually, I’m not joking. I expect the US economy to move forward strongly for a variety of reasons. This might also drag the UK economy with it, despite our government who promised a ‘growth economy’ when elected and at the first opportunity decided to launch policies that will do the opposite. Mostly though, I think the market for hyper cars will operate a little outside the head or tail winds except to say, if the world creates more very wealthy people then this class of ‘investment’ will do well.

 

Don't forget that on this very forum, 15 years ago, people were criticizing the 458, the 360, the 430, the Enzo... all made by Pininfarina! Saying that he'd lost some of his art and had to go. Today, when you don't like it, he has to come back? Nothing was better before. Only your opinion of it.

 

Ferraristi conveniently forget about this monstrosity when they deify Pininfarina.

Image Unavailable, Please Login
Image Unavailable, Please Login
Image Unavailable, Please Login
Image Unavailable, Please Login