12C vs 812S ( Cilindri vs Superfast)

I’d like to see the FIORANO lap times comparing the new 12C
In spite of the factory desire to maintain the pecking order, it remains the factoriy ‘s R&D lab.

 

Some nerdy questions comparing the 812 Competizione vs the 12Cilindri

Is the red-line higher in the 12 cilindri compared to the 812 competizione?

Is the crankshaft lighter in the 12cilindri?
Is the titanium conrods lighter in the 12 C vs 812 comp?

Is the Magna/Getrag gearbox superior in the 12c vs 812 Comp? Car and Driver got a faster 0-60 time than Ferrari had claimed .

 

I think you misunderstood the way that electric turbos work. They still harvest the exhaust gases, just like normal turbos do. They just have an electric motor that spins up the compressor side quicker before the gases take over, eliminating this way the lag.

 

The F8 is as silent as my MB sedan- which is why I switched to the 812 and never looked back. The GTS was a bit more muted with a lower octave sound but still acceptable. The 12C is now nearing the F8 for lack of the mellifluous V12 sounds we have become addicted to. Aftermarket exhaust systems may correct this but I suspect most owners will not want to perform the changes and potentially lose the warranty and ruin resale values.
It would be interesting to see what the resale prices for comparatively equipped 812s of the same year and mileage are with and without aftermarket exhausts

 

Ferrari quotes the same max rev for both 812C and 12C (9,500 rpm), and almost identical 0-100 kph (0.05 s to keep the VS in front).
Both engines have the same power but the 812C is supposed to have more torque - so the engines are not exactly the same.
Fore the 12C, the 2.9s time is quoted by Ferrari for 0-100kph (0-62mph, not 0-60). It should be obviously faster to 60mph, although in theory not by 0.2s (car and driver say they "estimate" 2.7s, whatever it means).

 

Yes I was under the impression that they used electricity instead of exhaust gases

Adding electric motors takes space and adds cooling dmenads too

Dont see the beauty of having so much space and weight devoted to performance

 

It is interesting how turbo charging differs from supercharging. Supercharging uses the motor to spin the charger and force air in whereas turbocharging uses the exhaust gases to spin the charger. I, like you had hoped electric turbocharging would work like a supercharger and not use the exhaust gases which robs the car of exhaust sound. The reality is the electricity keeps the turbocharger spinning so the exhaust gases work the charger more efficiently to eliminate turbo lag which is virtually nonexistent in superchargers.

 

Just catching up on this thread. Sorry to raise the earlier conversation but I did actually laugh out loud at the idea that buying convertible Ferraris is somehow destroying them! I have often tracked our Speciale, Pista and SF90 as well as numerous Porsches. We do about 5,000 Ferrari road trip miles across the alps and Europe each year, driving lovely roads as quickly as we safely can. I have never ‘cruised’ in a Ferrari and must have driven 100,000 fast Ferrari miles. And I love the 812 GTS, which handles brilliantly and is not wobbly at all. In fact its chassis stiffness is a standout feature for a convertible. Our 12C will also be a spider - we still have the 812 coupe so no need for another standard V12 coupe. In case anyone hadn’t noticed, Ferrari have been making open cars since the 50’s. Don’t think it did them much harm.

 

To buy a future V 12 that will never arrive ?

 

Cars of the 50s had a body put on top of a chassis - therefore the body itself was only marginally (if at all) involved in the car stiffness. With a monocoque body, the body is actually providing the stiffness, and that's why removing the top is detrimental (which is compensated to some extent by reinforcements in the remaining part).

 

I think its all relative really. Sure for outright performance and lap times a coupe will be quicker but on a summers day, top down on an amazing road, V12 singing, does anyone really care about lap times?

 

If I were going to track my car regularly I would go coupe. But I don’t- these are road cars and I drive top down as long as it’s not raining and temp is above 35F(seat heaters and blowers on full blast!)

 

Have you driven a GTS? It’s fantastic to drive and barely a hint of scuttle shake. Nowhere near enough to disturb the fun. Our Pista spider is great fun on track and road and it’s much less stiff than the GTS.

 

The differences on these cars have become quite small as to make the open air experience quite an advantage. I would phrase it like this- in the past, you had to really really want the open air experience to suffer the compromises; but now, you have to really really want the very slight dynamic advantages or perhaps you just like the look better, to go with the coupe. If you watch Chris Harris’ review of the 812 GTS, he will sum it up- these cars are so good and powerful, that while there is a tiny bit of shake, you really can’t notice. And I m someone who would have never uttered these words in the past, because I really did prefer the stiffness of the coupes.

 

What a great post - a very good way to put it.

 

You get the coupe only if you can't get the spider, want the car sooner, or general don't like the open air experience and want that panaromic feature. Outside of that, spider all day and ten times on Sunday!

Orrrr you are tall, 6'2 plus and want comfort seats which you can't do on the spider because in the GTS it was too tight for me. Wondering if there is more room..

 

or you need more space for luggage

 

I'm getting a coupe because:
1- I like the look better. To me you either like the concept of this car and go with it or just don't get it. I'm seeing a lot of people going with spiders because ir doesn't have the delta wing on the back. Well in place of it there's this random black panel which to me loses all meaning.

2- I want the luggage space. The difference large enough to make a difference between a semi-daily car and an "A to A" kind of car. Plus I need t fit two large bags to go on a "grand tour" with the wife.

3- It'll arrive about a year sooner.

4- It'll be around $50K less.

5- I like the panoramic roof. It narrows the gap between coupe and spider.

 

My thoughts exactly, and I can add that I already have a 812 GTS so having another open air V12 would be redundant.

 

Or you don't feel like having a crushed head in case this happens: https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/purosangue-over-turned.699728/

I can think of many reasons for preferring a coupe.

 

We have a couple of convertibles. Portofino and 911 TT. While I love open top cruising, we actually rarely do so because of weather mostly. And really, with my old bald head, it is reserved for evenings or pre dawn morning drives. :/

So practically speaking the coupe is a better choice for us. Even though I still long for a GTS at times…

 

same here! The coupe really looks fantastic

 

X4. I preferred the look of the 812 gts over the SF….opposite here for me. Spec’d my car yesterday. Have to decide on the exterior color in the next 3 to 4 weeks.

 

What colors are you selecting between? I am leaning heavily Rosso 1000GP.

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Interesting place for an intro but I just got into an F12 from a long line of extremely different cars. Traded in a 1963 Corvette to get the F12 and had a 2k hp GT-R before that. So far I like the F12 was just reading up on the next two newer models to see if there is much of a difference. I was surprised to see the rear tires on the 12C still a 315. I would’ve thought they would’ve went with a 335 rear tire especially if going to a 21in wheel anyway. So far that’s my only complaint of the F12 is rear tires size to power level. I personally would prefer more power and wider tires for a true autobahn rocket which is my preferred use of these cars.

Also, what is up with Ferrari’s obsession with “211+ mph top speed” which is exactly the same as the F12 and 812’s claim? Just make them faster even if a mph or 2 at a time is my baby brand new to Ferrari’s 2 cents.