The BORA

price is way to high, 20-30k more like it. Other than that it’s a parts car.

 

Been thinking about this roof ding. Realized that Deloreans get dings too, I googled Delorean ding repair and found out there's actually one of three still existing Delorean dealers right here in Orlando. I've emailed them to see if they can get the ding out but looking at online videos this is a really tiny ding compared to what they fix. They can also regrain the stainless but I'm not sure the grain on a Delorean is similar to the one on a Bora. I feel like the grain on the Bora is much finer than that on a Delorean. Anyone have any experience with this?
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You need to find a way to get better photos because quite frankly I can't even see it.

My car came with graining issues to. I never did anything about it though. There were two guys on here that have tackled this issue.
One is Claus Groth who made a jig for doing it but he sold his car and I'm sure he's even alive at this point?
The is a guy who calls himself BoraGuru or something like that. He got booted off of the forum after first insulting me and then then he got into it with the moderator when he said he thought that the truth was a an adequate defense then ... boom he was gone. I think he called me stupid, BFD . I didn't care but that's a violation of the TOS and the moderator refuse my request to just ignore it.

I think he's had his membership restored but he's not been back that I've noticed.

As Claus once described it to me the graining is not just all in a line straight across but with overlapping side by side graining in shorter lengths with start stop points staggered.
He also removed his roof.

 

Heres the same photo with the ding circled. Its small but on an otherwise flat expanse of stainless, its noticeable.


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OK I think I see it now. The dark object being reflected obscures it.

 

Its easier to see on this video, its still uploading so wait a few minutes for it to be available:



I have a ding doctor type coming by Friday. After viewing they feel they can pull it out with glue, no need to push from below but they cannot guarantee it will work. Other than that its probably a trip to DMC where they have experts in stainless repair.

 

Dean, a photo for you, food for thought.

It's only a tiny ding: don't tinker endlessly as too many in the US do; DRIVE the car, enjoy it!

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I never thought to go off roading with the Bora, but I suppose with the engine where it is, traction should be pretty good. Not so sure about ground clearance, I plan to drive and tinker, I like to do both of these.

 

Actually I would never do that but your ding made me think of that photo as a reaction. It was taken years ago by a French photographer and used as a cover of an issue of Il Tridente club magazine in the US.

I know you just got the car And want to prep it properly before you drive but don't let the US concours culture entrap you into creating a garage queen.

Too many do.

I have seen it happen a thousand times.

See Ivan he just drove his Khamsin seven hours each way to...a concours...and won: that's the way! I look forward to your driving impressions!

 

Drive it I shall. I still haven’t refitted the LHM tank. Pulled a muscle and can’t climb under the car at the moment. Hopefully this weekend I will be driving it. Fingers crossed. We have a car show here in April with a small rally. I’ll plan to do that. There’s also a 1000 Miglia event in Florida in February. I think that would be cool but it’s ridiculously expensive. On the other hand Bitcoin just went up “bigly” and YOLO.

 

Great to hear, hope your muscle heals. Remember what we discussed regarding roads, if that event is all boring south Florida straight roads save yourself for the Appalachians or further west. I think there is an event at the greenbrier with touring rally and concours, nice roads up there but even in north Georgia there are some great ones apparently.

 

Boring south and central Florida roads to be sure. Will do the local rally just for fun but for longer rally maybe better to wait for something out of state. Or at least hilly north Florida

 

Very happy with the ding repair. They spotted another ding in the roof they took care of same time no extra charge. Heres the website:
https://orlandodentcompany.com/ techs name was Nico.

 

That's great. So do you know how did they get it pushed out WO maring the roof liner?

 

Yes, they didn't push, they glued a tiny plug to the center of the ding and using a wee slide hammer pulled it out. They did it gently twice. The other ding (no photo) also had a high point, they tapped that down with a rubber tipped stick and pulled the low point out with a glued on plug again. Took about 10 minutes and it looks really good now.

 

Bad news. Reassembled the tank and lines and still saw smoke. dried off all the oil from the subframe but it kept reappearing in one spot and dripping on the header. I'm afraid its leaking from under the clip that hold the brake line in place (see pic). One of posts above mentioned that issue with the plastic under the clip eating through the line. Well I guess thats what that looks like.
Question 1: is this an engine out repair?
Question 2: if yes, does anyone know anyone in florida who can do this?
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How good are you at torturing your body to make repairs?
I did my repairs when I had everything out.
Given the age of the car now I think I'd replace all of those hard lines on the subframe.
Perhaps if you unfold the metal tabs you can remove the lines and then fabricate new ones to fit in place?
If it were me I'd use Cunifer brake line material as it's easy to bend in situ.

http://fedhillusa.com/

I don't know if there's any issue with the pressure rating and the LHM system. I'm planing on using on my Espada's brake lines project because that car has a really crazy design for brake lines.

Isn't fettling fun ...

 

Hey Staatsof

“Isn't fettling fun ... “

Not always! I haven’t even driven the car yet.

Anyways looking at the copper nickel piping the smaller sizes handle up 17000 psi. The manufacturer suggests a 5:1 safety ratio giving more like 2400 psi working pressure. The smaller sizes can handle that, ie: 3/16, 1/4, 4.5mm & 6mm. So now I’m wondering if anyone knows the diameter of that leaking line? If you replaced yours maybe you can remember? I can’t remedy what I ate for lunch yesterday

In regards to your question I’m not that that interested in torturing myself being riddled with arthritis and held together with screws and such but if the line can be replaced with the engine in situ I would consider it. I haven’t really crawled under and looked at the two ends of that pipe to see if they are even accessible. Anyone??

 

Staatsof, One more thing: what would be the correct plastic material to insulate the brake lines under the clips that wouldn’t eat through the lines line “alien blood”? I’ve read through the Citroen hydraulic threads here and you’ve mentioned this. I’ve also read used a good dielectric grease there as well to prevent galvanic action. Lastly there’s mention that Citroens use copper nickel lines so they should handle the pressure no problem.

I think I can handle this repair if I can access the brake lines with the engine in. I’ve completely replumbed two VW beetles from master cylinder to disc caliper upgrades and all the hard lines and SS braided rubber lines in between. Of course with the body off a bug you can reach everything easy peasy.

 

If you are utilizing the Cunifer material it's going to be so much easier to do it in situ. I utilized standard size brake line available at every auto parts store so it's not something exotic. The style of fittings utilized is another matter but since you will be replacing the entire rear brake plumbing you can utilize whatever you want. I've utilized that FedHill place a lot and they had everything I needed.

Here is something you might want to consider. In the old MIE club magazine from late 80's to early 90's are a couple of articles authored by myself a bit, George Marin (RIP) and Claus Growth. All of us Bora nut cases at the time. It's about making a very handy modification to the firewall on each side of the center hump and behind the seats to fit access holes for maintenance of the front part of the engine and engine bay which is where your most difficult access points are, especially for this project. The seats are very easy to remove and then these access panels constructed from fiberglass pieces you cut out which is glued to a hand formed aluminum panel and covered in matching black Naugahyde. The panel overlaps the opening and is secured with screws. These two panels allow you access to many items far easier than in a completely stock car. The already existing RH inspection panel is enlarged in the process. You can do this WO removing anything on the car other that RH inspection door. No mechanical or electrical systems get disturbed.

So ... if you then wanted to farm out the actual brake line replacement to a really good shop they'd have a much easier time doing the job, it should be cheaper and you'd get a better job.
I did this before I tackled re-manufacturing that poorly build engine compartment and it worked great.

Now, about dropping that entire engine and sub frame assembly. Yeah I did that too, later on. My Bora was in my somewhat below street level garage in my SF apartment house on elevated jack stands. It remained there on those jack stands even during the 1989 SF earthquake!
It was up high enough that once the assembly was dropped down it just barely rolled backwards and out of the engine compartment. However I did remove the intake manifold and carbs as a precaution.

But here's the thing, my car is the last Bora and was manufactured in 1979 so it was only 10 years old and yet ... all of the associate cables , wiring, plumbing and mechanical bits like the parking brake cable and shift linkage were very stiff and the connection very hard to access and quite hard to disconnect. Remember, when they manufactured these cars most of that stuff was already properly attached to engine & subframe plus it was brand new!

I addressed these issues at the time by deciding to modify the car some more so that every such disconnect point was more easily accessed and utilized durable connectors. I then marked and cut the wiring and plumbing when possible where the new connection would coincide. The hydraulic system already has many such points.

Presently I'm about 50% through a similar project with my 71 Espada II and It's much bigger nightmare than the Bora ever was. You cannot believe the amount of re-engineering that car has required. Lamborghini manufactured their cars very poorly back then, not that any of them were all that great. It's a large part of why they're so expensive to repair.

I think you should invest YOUR time on those access panels, use the Cunifer and think seriously about having brake line job farmed out.

Before making your decision you might want to invest in one of those borescope like inspection cameras but the larger kind that illuminate well and display on a monitor that also records. That way you can access for yourself what needs to be removed for an in situ job. I'm not recommending this one but something like this with enough reach and hopefully a good flashlight capability. You're not inspecting cylinder walls or pistons.

https://www.harborfreight.com/35-in-digital-inspection-camera-with-micro-sd-card-slot-64170.html

 

Certainly not an engine out repair. I had a similar problem but with the line that goes to the seat piston.

First, peel back the metal that is holding the plastic buffer, remove the plastic and verify that the tube is broken (it probably is). Cut the bad section of the pipe and install a coupler with two flared fittings. You can buy a short brake line at an auto parts store and use the ends. Brake line flaring tools are available at Harbor Freight or Amazon.

You will end up with something that looks like the photo below.

Ivan

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If you find the MIE article on the brake line disintegration it might specify what we used. I fired out what to use by researching the specification of the plastic tubing in the McMaster catalog website. You might even find it on this website, I know it's been discussed. My friend George had a niece who was chemical engineer and it was she who suggested the why of this happening. The Cunifer lines won't corrode like this. When I refinished my sub frame I had thinker SS securing tabs welded on. You might have to use new metal tube clips that secure via a screw and fit over the tubing covering the brake line.

 

Yeah but Ivan that's for a seat this is a lot more serious and if this one has gone bad then probably they're all corroding by now. Notice it's right next to the header the classic spot it happens.

 

Ivan and staatsof I sincerely appreciate all the input. I think both rear hard lines should be done now, or Ill be spending more time under the car as the lines spring leaks here and there at the various clips. Also the receipt trail for this car has new front rubber lines but not rear ones. If I have to bleed the brakes may as well change those now too. I think I will use the cunifer material suggested above. Big project. Hopefully can drive this car sometime in 2025 LOL.

Dean

 

That's terrific and quite innovative. Glad it worked out so well.