People talk the cars they own themselves up. I prefer to drive an SF90 XX and have exclusivity instead of a 296 that has been built far too often. Especially as it is still significantly faster on the racetrack.
Absolutely - Cocoloco and yourself proof positive there! You guys crack me up. Getting all emotional and salty isn't the solution to the problem. Everything you've both posted only supports what I said previously, particularly regarding the inevitable. Exclusivity only has a certain value to a certain group, who have mainly spent an absolute fortune, and deserve some way out of their losses (hopefully). When a car doesn't live up to being a better driving package than the less costly lesser exclusive model - in this case 296 vs SF90 - and, most likely 296VS - vs Sf90XX - then the market will always favour the victor. Nobody is saying SF90xx is an unattractive car, although with SF90 plenty held that opinion. SF90xx clearly has a lot of road presence - no question. Bravo! But is it worth near twice as much as SF90? And will it retain that same or more value in the long term? The market is yet to decide the car's fate there. SF90 is due for replacement very soon and undoubtedly the next version is going to send both those cars packing, most probably along with their values. And the talk of it being faster on a racetrack only holds so much water given the car is AWD and very heavy for what it is. As a track car there are so many better alternatives. Given these cars aren't being raced and only driven on a track, pure speed and lap times become less meaningful when there are better driving experiences to be had for less money, and which are far more viable and cost effective to run in that environment.
What you write makes no sense, if you are only interested in performance and price, a Daytona SP3 should only cost 300K. But a Ferrari is about more than just that, because it's about emotions, looks, performance, exclusivity, the whole package and that's where an SF90 XX or of course a Daytona SP3 is superior to a 296 and also 296 vs. I'm pretty sure that the SF90 will increase in value, because the successor will certainly be significantly more expensive, with a maximum of 30-40 hp more and a poorer sound due to the regulations. I'll contact you again next year at the same time and we'll talk about it then.
Not a value discussion thread! I don’t understand why this is becoming so prevalent. It’s destroying people’s brains that it’s not FREE to drive a Ferrari for a couple years.
Value and depreciation are obvious factors in any vehicle purchase, particularly when prices exceed a certain level and, secondary market sales evidence sets a tone worthy of attention and further consideration. It's also not compulsory to participate in any discussion which you personally may not see any sense in, particularly if it's "destroying your brain".
My senses have remained intact. Those who harp on value and little else, I fear they’ve lost theirs. These are depreciating assets. If it bothers you that the cars are losing value, don’t play the game or just make more money….
Try not to trouble yourself over the thoughts and considerations of others so much. Value or depreciation should not be viewed as a point of "bother" at all. Rationalising any high cost purchase, whether it be a house, car, boat (or whatever), is a very normal process which is why so many here end up at one point bringing value or depreciation into play during the course of expressing their opinion or argument. Being astute, exercising due diligence in a decision making process should certainly not be criticised or condemned, least of all be subject to feeble attempts made by yourself as "not having the means to afford/absorb any losses"...and. to "make more money". I've often found the more money people have the more astute they become and, it's usually the lesser fortunate, the ones who really can't afford, but act impulsively, putting up a front to impress those who genuinely have the means and, who have expressed considerations.
By all means please check in next year to update - always keen to hear and discuss outcomes. Agree Ferrari should be all about emotions, attractive appearances, performance and exclusivity - in that order. Pity things have taken quite a turn with these new hybrids. No wonder SP23 is so much more desirable and, valuable. No argument - bigger power and acceleration numbers on a sheet of paper rarely substitute a loss of emotion. SP3 may not be as fast but more than makes up for it in looks and emotion however, we are talking about 2 cars (SF90 and 296) here, which have been widely reviewed and reported on, all giving the prize to 296 as overall winner. Speculative at this point in time I agree, but as 296 is RWD, lighter, more communicative, with reportedly superior sound, odds are the situation will be repeated with 296VS vs SF90XX, leaving SF90XX with exclusivity as its main drawcard, albeit at a significantly higher price. Great looking car for sure, but not really a track car and being left off the XX motorsport programmes is no surprise given the chassis make up. Doubt many will ever see a track least of all more than a day or two before being wheeled back into the garage.
Yes, I agree that cars like the 812 Competizione, SP2 and SP3 are in a different league due to their looks and emotions. Nevertheless, you can say that both the SF90 and the 296 are both damn fast cars. Both cars have their advantages/disadvantages. There are plenty of people who say the SF90 looks a lot snappier than the 296, which some compare to a McLaren due to its compact shape. At the end of the day there is a lot of speculation involved, people weren't a fan of the 488 Spider at the beginning and now you get almost the same as what you paid for the car back then. Let's wait until the 296 VS is presented, if the sound is like from the F80, the SF90 XX definitely won.
Hard not to agree with all you've said there. You pretty well covered it. Only thing I could contest would be the look of the 296 being more Mclaren like. Im going to strap myself in with racing harness and flame suit on first before saying 296 struck me initially as being rather Lotus like in appearance, but as is the case with SF90, criticisms over appearances have since faded with many adjusting and more open to the new appearances than previously. Let's hope values do come back. I agree if 296VS goes back on its current sound then it will definitely lose some of its previous 296 shine. Appearance wise will hopefully offer similar improvements as XX now has. Let's wait and see.
I don’t disagree with what you’re saying. Numbered cars do have an inherent advantage in the Collector wars, regardless of their intrinsic merit. With that being said, I believe that those paying secondary market prices for early 296 VS will do better than those paying early secondary prices for SF90 XX. Also, I was more focused on how each will be perceived by the Ferrari cognoscenti and I believe the 296 VS will be perceived as more authentic VS and less of a tarted up and contrived marketing department money grab than the SF90 XX
To those who are trying to challenge me … please show me the equivalent precursor to the SF90 XX … Image Unavailable, Please Login
You need a touch of reality vs a few forum opinions which are the same guys over n over. SF90 used Spider sells above msrp - a poster just paid 20k over. 296GTS does not - just took delivery of my 296GTS and will not keep it like I will SF90 Spider. Go ahead and make noise - guys who won't buy Lambo Ferrari hybrid. It's too expensive - risk. Ferrari is building what buyers want. sorry you and others feel left out., No offense, get over it. There is nothing special about a few opinions vs thousands of owners and enthusiasts. Ferrari F80 - like every other new Halo car has its dislike and like - a hybrid at 4M they all sold. Crazy money is just rude - getting old to see insults to owners and enthusiasts. If you wouldn't say it in person why do you feel so comfortable saying it here. Since you are an RS guy - just got RS allocation and look forward to driving it vs discussing value.
We all know that a hybrid track car is not easy / economical / safe. The 296 track car - hybrid? I love how the tether works - or doesn't. SF90 XX is being tethered to 499P - Hyper club etc. all the livery owners who paid to have a historical livery, By the way how did Ferrari do with the 499P in front of 330,000 spectators.
I prefer my Mk1 GTi, from 1984, in the mountains vs. my 458, despite the fact it only has 85hp. Speed is not the only factor in driving experience, though its important. That Mk1 GTi is so much fun taking around twisty turns and switchbacks in the Blue Ridge mountains. The car is so light, it really feels like you're piloting a go-kart. There is something to the idea of driving a slow car fast over driving a fast car slow within a niche use case. The 296 has so much hp, I actually think for average drivers, it would be a handicap in the average driver's hands on the Tail of the Dragon as an example course.
I’m with you on being an internal combustion engine purist. But that era ended with the introduction of the LaFerrari. You must have seen the 296 VS by now. What hints can you give about its design? Does it have swan neck rear wing like GT3 cars?
You are missing my entire point. The SF90 while being a very capable car and I’m not hating on anyone who owns one, it has absolutely ZERO race car bona fides. Which model does Ferrari race in its Challenge series? The 296 Which model is raced in GT3? 296 Which model is raced at LeMans? 296 No SF90 has been anywhere near LeMans as a competitor, or any other race track for that matter. And respectfully, the SF90 XX has absolutely nothing to do with the 499P. The SF90XX was a cynical profiteering maneuver with no racing lineage authenticity of the underlying model and a pure cash grab by the company who simply gave the SF90 the Mansory treatment and held their nose while they slapped the hallowed XX label onto the side of it.
Just some thoughts I have both cars, and I can tell you while I like the 296, I prefer the SF90. And I went into it thinking I would favor the 296 because it has more classic looks and Im tried of cars getting bigger and bigger, and adding more and more aero/styling elements, and the 296 is a little bit smaller than many of the cars that came before. Neither of these cars is light and I dont think the weight difference really helps the 296 in terms of handling, at least in my hands. I think the 296 is a car that if you push it, it wants to bite you. The systems help a lot, so you need to leave them ON. If you don’t believe some guy posting on f-chat, then believe Chris Harris, just watch his review of the 296. In particular, it feels like it has more rear weight bias than most recent Ferraris. I find the SF90 more friendly to push a bit on the road, but, I am leaving the systems on, and I am sure there is some (or much!) assistance…. Seat of the pants reaction: I just like the SF90 more. I just find the car more balanced feeling and I cannot drive these cars flat out on the road (for more than a second or two) so I enjoy the sensation of the greater torque from the V8. The 296 cabin feels just a little bit tight vs the SF90- and Im not that physically large so it doesn’t really matter too much for me, but I still prefer the SF90. In short the SF90 feels more like the top of the range, which is what it is supposed to be. Back to these cars, if I take my 812 to an event, the people who come to me are aged approximately mid 30s and older. If I take the SF90 or 296, they are kids through mid 40s. And the kids are running after me with their iPhones running…. Car companies have to design cars that will not just sell today, but also in the future. I think there are definitely some places for improvement with the new hybrid cars, but I also think they have got a lot right. As someone who appreciates the simple and pretty shape of the 296, I hope they make the VS more in keeping with the simple and more pretty shape of the 296. For what its worth, I think the SF90XX is how the SF90 should have always been, in the case of this car, I think the extra visual drama, and I am hoping some extra driving drama, will take it to the next level.
Great post and great commentary on both cars. My belief is that the 296 VS will NOT be simple shape restyling, but will actually be very butch with a lot of aggressive aero.
So funny how these cars fit our style or preference. I personally like the way the 296 drives more than the SF90. But I think they’re both great. And very different. 296 drives different from any car I’ve ever owned, honestly. It’s much more reactive and darty. I can see it catching someone out.
blah blah blah - when you learn about the development of the XX - let me know. You aren't hating on anyone - read your last sentence, what are you so mad about? Listen - if you walked up to an XX owners and repeat the last sentence to their face, go for it. Why so many people here post such bs / opinions about others Ferrari's is pathetic. Forza Scuderia - SF90 and now XX are the strongest and fastest Ferrari's to leave Maranello. How dare Ferrari design and sell something you don't like - whine on. Back to the 296VS - the reason we are all here vs whiners who don't like owners cars.
Yes and I’m expressing my take that the 296 VS will low key be the more authentic and desirable car that will become an all time classic versus the SF90 XX whose star will fade out fairly quickly in my opinion. Despite the SF90 XX higher price tag and positioning I believe it will slip from favor while the 296 VS ascends over time. Because 296 VS will be more authentic and SF90 XX is forced and contrived.
