Schumacher coming to Mercedes out of retirement was for a similar reason. But Schumacher never needed encouragement or gave up. He did his job and helped Mercedes become the winning team they were for 6 years.
Definitely not for 2025. 2026....who knows what will happen to Ferrari or any other team as it's a new reset for everyone.
There is a lot of negative things that could be said about the Schumacher/Mercedes years. Easily could say it damaged his legacy, but if you look below the surface and dig a little into the details, there are a lot of qualities that add to his legacy if you ask me. 4 years off is tough for any driver. Most drivers cant even take a year off. Being older with neck problems certainly didn't make the job easier. Not to mention a completely different formula than what he last raced in 06. Going from a complete junker of a car in 2010 to one that was able to score poles and wins in 2012 is a lot down to MSC. It's been said he brought a work ethic that changed how that team operated. That championship team we saw dominate 2014-2021 was helped form by Schumacher. I will never say the success of Mercedes or Hamilton is because of Michael, but he he certainly helped that team grow in 2010-12. Rosberg was no slouch. He proved himself against both 7x champions, which is something nobody else can ever say. Generally speaking Michael didn't get crushed by Rosberg, Schumacher worked hard to be more competitive. In 2012 he was the fastest qualifier between the two. He very easily could have had a better season with one or two wins that season if it wasn't for some bad luck and Grosjean. My point is that despite having nothing to prove, despite all the challenges, despite the hard times he had. Schumacher worked hard, never gave up and gave it his all each and every race. That is what one should expect from a 7x World Champion.
Makes me respect Mercedes much more, particularly from a sporting perspective...... and I can't believe I just wrote that...!!!
Earlier this year I met someone working on the Ferrari team and the sentiment from the race crew and engineers is positive to have an opportunity to work with Hamilton but I lament the departure of Sainz even more in light of the recent press comments. Even with enormous support from inside the team every race weekend I don't have confidence that Hamilton can consistently be at the sharp end. And that sinks our 2025 prospects while we're facing such long odds for this last race of 2024. He's sunsetted himself. What size shoe does Fred wear? It's going to need to be inserted into some uncomfortable places to get Hamilton back on form. That's the only way this works if we want a constructor's title.
Why does everyone want to concentrate on the last few races? Mercedes knew that he was leaving at the start of the season, so he's explicitly been kept out of various technical meetings and information, and probably rightly so. Yet here at the end of the season, he's 24 points and one point behind his 13 years younger team mate who has had the benefit of the whole team concentrating on him as the future. What other team mates are even close to the '#1' driver? Starting from the top: RB. 1st and 8th, 277 point spread McLaren. 2nd and 4th, 58 point spread. Many here are raving about Pisastri, and think he's better than Norris Ferrari. 3rd and 5th, 69 point spread. Many, myself included, think Sainz is top line drive, at least as worthy of the seat as LeClerc. Merc. 6th and 7th, 24 point spread. But, but , but, Hamilton is crap and has never done anything except drive the best car wah, wah, wah. Aston. 9th and 13th, 8 point spread. Yeah, this isn't a great example. I've defended Stroll for years, but like Perez, it's time to go. Hass, 10th and 15th, 21 point spread. Two A- drivers in their day, relatively closely match. Alpine, 11th and 14th, 13 point spread VCARB, 12th and 17th. and Danny Ric is gone. Williams16th and 19th. Again Seargent is gone. Sauber 20th and 22nd, 4 point spread. Damn, the dudes at the tail end of his career and still damn close to his team mate who's now the center of attention while LCH is being excluded from certain information. How is that not an excellent performance? Just up thread, people are talking about Schumacher at Merc, and while admitting he was slower than the Michael of a 5-10 years before, talking up the job he did. OVer the 2010-12 period Rosberg, who beat Hamilton once in their four years together, outscored MCS every year as follows: 2010, 7th - 9th, 70 point spread 2011, 7th - 8th, 13 point spread 2012, 9th - 13th, 44 point spread Yet somehow people are still looking for ways to put down Hamilton's performance. I just don't get the desperation to 'prove' Hamilton isn't that good. I'm not saying he's the GOAT, that's an impossible definition given the way the sport has evolved over the last 74 years. I am saying there is nothing to suggest he isn't one of the absolute best drivers ever, along with Fangio, Clark, Stewart, Lauda, Prost, Senna, Piquet, Schumacher etc.
Good points. It's not important to me if Russell beats Sir Lewis Hamilton. He has nothing else to prove for me.
I think there is more to it than this single statistic. For example, at Spa Hamilton inherited a win once George got DQ'd. Had GR kept the win the spread in points now becomes 56. George Russell has completely wrecked Lewis in qualifying this year. So despite the 24 point spread, the actual performance disparity has been quite large this year. Then there is the issue that Lewis himself is saying he isn't as fast any more, he doesn't know why he's slow, can't qualify, etc. An incredibly rare lack of confidence from such a high profile, highly successful driver. Having said that, Lewis does prove he is still strong in races. Vegas GP was a phenomenal race performance from him. His tire management in Silverstone was unbelievable. He struggled at the beginning of 2022 and then adjusted and was much better than George in the second half of that seasons. He was the 3rd best driver in 2023. I don't think for a second he's some washed up bum that lost all his talent. I think his driving ability is still there but his mental state and confidence seems to have taken a blow. Similar to what you brought up, I think it's very possible Mercedes have switched their priorities over to George. Rightfully so if you ask me, but it very likely could impact Lewis' performances as well. Naturally Lewis will be more scrutinized because of his status, because of his success and because of the fans and media claiming his GOAT status. IMO, the last 3 or 4 seasons have exploited Lewis to the level of driver he's always been. A very good driver no doubt, and one that is capable of challenging for championships, but not the best driver on the grid and certainly not some god like figure that is the greatest we've ever seen.
You've just proved my point. You immediately jumped to 'but', 'if', 'don't forget', etc. There are reasons, exceptions, if onlys, for every driver in every race they've ever done, but people search endlessly for reasons to prove Hamilton isn't that good. I see far more people on here making arguments and points to prove Hamilton isn't that good, he's just lucky, etc. Look, Lewis has seven WDCs, and people are looking for reasons why he didn't deserve one or more of them. No one mentions 2016 where he was beaten by Nico by 5 points, but had one more win. If they'd had the same number of DNFs Hammy would have won. On the other side, everyone loves that MSC has seven titles as well, conveniently forgetting he was driving a proven illegal car (we promise we didn't use traction control, even though it was illegally fitted, and people could hear it working), and still needed to crash out Hill to win in 94. People ***** about Button's win claiming it was only because of his (some still claim illegal) car while praising Max this year for a similar title run, starting with the dominant car that slipped back. Somehow Max is a hero for tenaciously holding on to his points lead, while Button was 'lucky'. And let's not forget that in 09, it wasn't only Brawn who had a double diffuser, Williams and Toyota had them as well from the start of the season. I've never once tried to argue any of the championship drivers are better or worse DRIVERS than others. I will happily admit that Senna and Schumacher may be the best natural drivers the sport has seen. I will argue they are not the best RACING DRIVERS due to their frequent dangerous and unethical behavior repeated many many times throughout their whole career. I have also said that Max was a whinny brat with bad behavior and a petulant 'not my fault, wha wha' attitude at the start. But I've also said that he's matured, and right now is the best driver in F1. Massi ignoring breaking the rules certainly cost Hamilton the the 21 championship and I've said that destroyed him mentally and it took 18 months for him to recover. He's shown real grit and determination this year with some very impressive drives, but he is also suffering mentally with being excluded and that frustration is getting to him. These mental issues are a notch against him, but every driver has the same issues. Look at how Max's improved sportsmanship went out the window when he didn't have the best car this year. Look at Norris, at some points this year he was clearly driving better than Max, yet he couldn't hold the mental game to the end and had some very lackluster performances in the last few races. Look at both Senna and Prost's coming togethers, guilt on both sides. There's something about Hamilton that makes people on here, more than just about any other forum, desperate to prove he's not that good, and I just don't get it. To get to the absolute top in any area, especially one as difficult to scale as F1, needs incredible self belief, and total certainty that you are the very best. That means you have some rough edges. In the grand scheme of things, I'd say Hamilton has no more than any other multiple WDC, and a lot less than many. I am not saying Lewis is the best. I'm not saying Max is the best. I'm saying that things ebb and flow, and at different times Lewis, Max, and many others have been the best driver on the grid. I'm also saying that Hamilton's current form, while not where it was a few years ago, is still in the top handful. Max was the best driver this year, and in the last few races where he clearly didn't have the best car, he wrung every last ounce of performance out of it. Also, while I don't agree with how he has raced at times, I will grant that his mental clarity, even when he loses his temper is amazing. Look at the questions he's asked, and observations he's made over the radio while wringing 11/10ths out of an unwieldy car, simply amazing.
I'm glad I could help prove your point because I am somewhat agreeing with you. I was just giving some context to why so many are quick to point a finger at Lewis when he isn't doing so well. To add to that context; Remember that from 2014-2020 the media (Sky Sports in particular) led the narrative of how great Lewis Hamilton is. Painting him as the greatest ever. Over glorifying any success and making excuses for any failures. Of course the Lewis fans are perhaps even more passionate about this belief and love to jump to his defense when any negativity or criticism is directed his way. That's all fine. But.... There are the fans and rare folks in the media that didn't buy into this narrative. That Lewis' success was primarily from the car and being incredibly privileged to having teams build around his wants, dating all the back to when he was a rookie. Also some strange decisions from F1 and the FIA that protected this streak of success.These fans had to endure 7 or 8 years of watching him rack up wins and poles and championship and listen to the growing story of his greatness. Quite difficult for these fans to debate against a driver rewriting the record books after ever race. That is until 2022. From this point Lewis has not enjoyed the luxury of having a dominant car, or even the best car (with the exception of a handful of races). He's been beaten by his teammate 2 of the 3 years. Jaw jobbing performances are few and far between. Franky he's looking quite ordinary. All these people that were saying for 8 years that he isn't as great as the stats and the media is making him out to be, are now pointing it out at every opportunity. Basically it's one continuous "I told you so". Having said all that, I am going back to once again agree with you in the sense that Lewis is still a great driver that is very very capable of winning races and making a charge at the championship if he's in a good enough car. I think most expect, at least at this point, for Leclerc to put a hurting on Hamilton next season with Ferrari. I think that's very likely in qualifying but I would not be surprised in the least if Lewis is right there with him in points by the end of the year. Saying he's still a top 5 driver on the grid is absolutely fair imo, especially when you could throw a blanket over the 2nd to 7th drivers at this point.
So anyway, I think Jimmy Clark is the GOAT and would have continued to win more championships, and possibly the triple crown, had he not died. What say you guys?
Shameful. That sums up exactly why I personally don't like him and don't hold him in the same regard as other Champions. A driver's true nature is shown when everything is stacked against him and he is taking a beating. Speaks volumes to his character and the type of competitor he really is.
Max showed what he does this year in car that for more than a few races could not win. He screamed and whined at times. All on camera and recorded. He was not able to drive around the issues. OMG he is human........ Drivers whine and complain to the team and about the team ---this is not new and Max is not an exception.
When has Max ever radioed he wanted to quit? Maybe I'm wrong but I can't recall a time he ever radioed to park the car because he was behind.
Hamilton, the unluckiest driver in F1 for the last 4 seasons. Image Unavailable, Please Login -0.175 vs Russell Image Unavailable, Please Login
Having said that, it may make sense sometimes for a team to retire a stricken car that has no chance to score points. With a limited amount of engines, turbo, etc ...per season, saving components to avoid grid penalties later for going over the allocation may be a team choice. But it is rare that a driver thinks about that during a race ! Instinct if often to go on, at any cost.
This might be the only time in the last 10 years that Lewis has been unlucky. How exactly has he been the most unlucky driver of the last 4 years?
