296 VS

it was out of control how many people were told to buy Lussos lol - I know a few who didn't even want the car and never took delivery, they just kept it at the dealership then got them to sell it for them at a later date

 

Yes, several times.

 

Received 296GTS last week - with certainty - Ferrari either has / will get a list from the dealer - Ferrari picks early customers. dealer may have some say but not much.
Amazing that anyone saying they know what / how many / specs / performance VS will be delivered is humorous. Dealers know what they know when it hits their computers - and it has not hit yet.

Keep in mind - it's not only a matter of how many, they made plenty Scuds Pista's but not many roadsters.
Early allocations - always go at a premium late allocations are usually toned down but not all.
Guys who get early allocation on all Ferrari's limited or unlimited have blind faith in Ferrari to deliver something special - esp when it comes to track version.
Anyone who says a track version is not special - feel free to show otherwise
360CS 430Scud 16M 458Sp 458Ap Pista Pista Spider F12tdf 812comp 812 Aperta 599GTO 599Aperta etc.
The consumable / hybrid / too expensive has been said from the guys who don't buy since chrome bumpers / manual / etc. Never heard a non buyer/ older Ferrari owner appreciate a new model.

 

I am sympathetic to the point about the NA cars, but, I also think a lot of this is generational.

If you have just made the money, or are simply new to Ferrari, and want to buy a new one, because you don't want someone else's car, and you buy a 296 or SF90 or Roma, or any of their new cars, you will be impressed and this could very well become your frame of reference. Drive a 458, and you might find it old, loud, weird controls... This is not my point of view, but I do think there is another side to the argument in favor of the new cars. I just think they should have marketed the hybrid cars not as hybrids but as simply performance enhancers without the e-manettino.

These new cars are quite well done and very impressive.

 

If Ferrari only had customers like you, it would be heaven for them ! always ready to buy everything, to find extraordinary everything they make. I'm sure that if they released a 4-cylinder hybrid with 6 turbo, you'd put yourself on the list. It's a way of seeing life, soon EVs, don't take long to make a reservation

 

I just cant find the mental capacity to imagine a Ferrari EV.

 

Yes because concerning the new clientele, you described it very well, to the point that at 47 years old these cars make me feel old... and I'll tell you no on the other hand because what is rich in sensation is universal and any enthusiast will take more pleasure behind the wheel of an F50 than a 296 with 350 hp more...
Personally, I think it's a question of car culture, and what's constant when you talk to new customers is that many don't know anything about it.
It can be transposed to watches, wine... It's hard to appreciate something when you don't put it in context.
For me the 296 is like an Apple watch... It's effective, it does everything well but we don't spend time admiring it, understanding it like a Rolex. And at the wheel, it's like on the wrist, there is one that you forget and the other that you feel existing.
Just my opinion

 

Again - buyers have confidence in Ferrari.
You want to make a legit argument - please do so, I will respond.
EV's hasn't happened - no doubt it's coming but until then try and live in reality it's not as bad as you make it out to be. SF90XX 296VS or whatever - time will tell.
246 F1 is probably the coolest car ever built. An enlarged version of the Dino engine.

 

A lot being said about the direction Ferrari is heading in but I find it’s still possible to both appreciate the past and embrace the future… I get a lot of enjoyment from both :-D
Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

100% - few months ago this arrived. 296GTS arrives tomm, never thought I would own a V6 let alone love it.
Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

Let’s dive into soul for a moment. Fairly nebulous concept when it comes to cars. Certainly it means almost anything and varies from person to person. I’m curious if those here that pan on and on about the inherent soulfulness of NA cars would claim the Lamborghini Aventador has got it. Certainly, from my experience, it has many flaws that are charming to some point and annoying to others. But I can’t think of a more disposable car. It’s the perfect machine to rent for 3 months every 3 years to remind oneself not to own one. As are many of these older, “soulful” cars. Great in the mind, less so in reality.

 

Hugely off topic post. Countless vids available to answer your question without polluting the thread with such absurdity.
A true enthusiast would never say an Aventador is "disposable", with questionable soul. You've obviously never driven one, rented or otherwise, to say what you have. Many of these earlier naturally aspirated cars have more soul than most of these new cars could hope for.

 

Perhaps the main beauty of a forum like FChat is the ability to converse and convey your opinions to anyone wanting to listen.
Several friends of mine had an Aventador and they all despised the car. They loved it for the 'Batman' appeal but hated how it drove.
Badge had very limited infleunce on it as they own cars from all brands.
It was just the searting position, the gearbox, etc. They all hated the Aventador for how it actually drove.

So in that regards it's actually nice to see, hear and read about the opposites that defend the Aventador.

 

Some very interesting points in all discussions above; regarding 'soul'.
I also do agree thet generation plays a part in this as well.
If you'd ask a 60-70-80 year old race driver they would probably say the same thing about "those new cars with power steering or ABS".

It's very tough to define what makes a car have a 'soul' and when not. is is strictly NA or non hybrid or manual, etc. I think it differs a lot per generation of buyers. The new or next generation will have other criteria.

Perhaps it's also a factor in how our mind works.
There once was a time when everyone thought David Hasselhof was 'the man' in Knight rider and KITT the fastest car on the planet. How our visions and thoughts have changed. Perhaps this is true for cars as well.
There is a wonderfull episode(s) of Top Gear that goes on about never meeting your heroes. James May had ity whe he review the Countach. He lusted for it, but when he drove it... not so much!

Perhaps we are sometimes idolizing past models as well a bit too much. Perhaps the criteria of how we value those older models should change as well.
They were time capsules for that certain period. Peak performance of that time. But no where near as 'good' as models today.
Yes, I'm 100% sure a 360C will give most drivers goose bumps. But how reliable or good is it actually compared to current models. Metrics chance and shift.
We beter need to see current models also as time capsules of this day and age.
When we lust for the past, the best thing to do is buy sometine from the past and cherish it.
There is no wrong or right here. We live in the now.
Time stops for no man.....

 

I dont own one or care to, only because it doesnt suit me, but know plenty who do and never heard of anyone saying anything other than what an experience it is to drive and own one.
The experience of driving these types of atmo cars is second to none in the sensory area - sound being such a key element.
I have huge respect for the turbo cars and love the experience of all these cars but to say a v12 lambo is a disposable car with questionable soul only serves to expose a complete lack of knowledge and experience with these types of cars, period.
Soul isnt all that hard to define in a sports car nor is rating the soul each possesses if you are a true enthusiast. Im also not here to defend the aventador, but i certainly know bull (pardon the pun) when i read or hear it.

 

I’ve had one. The more you post the more I think you’re a teenager. I don’t need a YouTube video to inform my opinion. If I want to experience something and form an opinion I do it in the real world.

 

Well written. This is certainly the road I was going down. Lots of posts regarding the inherent lack of soul of the 296 and by proxy VS. The disposability of them. I don’t agree. I was merely using the Aventador to illustrate that point. Funnily, when I got my last AV (I’ve had two, actually, one S roadster and last one a 2016) I hated it at first, then really started to find it charming. Then the charm started wearing off. And finally hated again. All in 3 months lol. It does look amazing though. I think it’s a car you use for everyone else, since people go crazy for it, at the expense of your own enjoyment. If that’s your thing, and nothing wrong with that, great.

 

Remember when you made posts for pages about how the touch controls were the future and everyone who didn't like them were idiots and would run the business side of Ferrari into the ground. Then Ferrari came out with the F80 which removed almost all of those controls and you went radio silent. Pepperidge Farm remembers

 

You know what - I'd take a 288 GTO over a 458 any days, in spite of the 288 being (a soulless) turbocharged car and the 458 a mighty NA car.
Each to their own, no matter what the holders of the undisputable truth think or write.

 

I see some people comparing the criticism of the new turbo-hybrid generation (SF90, 296) with the criticism of the launch of ABS, paddle shifts, etc.

I think these are different situations.

A 355F1, for example, had the innovation of the F1 gearbox, but it never failed to thrill those who drove, saw and heard it, and the F1 was something that the market accepted well.

We can say the same about the technological leap from the F430 to the 458, and so many other examples.

But what always happened is that those cars always ended up, in a matter of months, being desired by everyone.

That is not the case with this new turbo-hybrid generation. These cars are not, for many, objects of desire.

What impresses me the most is that even in conversations where people are not from the automotive industry (the general public), I see many people saying that Ferrari has lost its touch with its current cars (turbo-hybrids).

So, it is something that you see and hear on FChat, and everywhere.

The market speaks for itself and regulates itself. And the factory sales spreadsheet itself does not tell us about the market, but rather a saturation of models for sale with less than 5,000 miles, with increasingly lower prices.

I see more and more people not feeling any emotion driving an SF90.

Of course there are people excited about the SF90 or 296. But the number of enthusiasts who dislike these cars is far greater than the number of enthusiasts who disliked other models.

Electrification has gone too far, the turbo has killed the sound. These are not evolutionary changes like used to be.

No matter how much efficiency, performance, comfort, technology there is, the main factor that makes people buy a sports car is emotion.

And beauty and emotion, when in high degree, are not subjective factors, but objective. For example, does anyone not agree that the F12TDF is beautiful and exciting?

If certain models are considered less emotional by a large number of enthusiasts (a larger number than ever), and if the second-hand market is weak for these cars, then management and strategy are failing.

I respect those who disagree, but this is my opinion.

 

Soul comes from seat time -owner reviews who offer the full review of ownership after a year or two.
It's those guys who love their car for what it is - not for what it is not.

 

My whole point was that it is great to have a medium that allows us to vent our opinions and that it's good to hear about opposites and people defending those.
It was not about saying what a crappy car it is.
And yes, I could care less what people say about cars when they've actually never driven them. Both my friends drove 10k miles with an Aventador.
But let's close a discussion about how good/bad an Aventador is in this section.

 

As someone who wasn’t thrilled about a hybrid V6, after completing Corso Pilota and getting a lot of seat time behind a 296, I am not a convert and waiting for my dealer to put a nice spec up for sale.

 

You meant “now a convert”, correct? The 296 has grown on me a lot also.

Everyone that has owned one has really praised the driving dynamics. There are certainly things I would change (I wish it had the F8 steering wheel or even exterior looks for example), but as a tool to get driving enjoyment out of, the 296 absolutely excels.

 

Yes, I am NOW a convert. It was a joy to drive.