Ferrari F80 value thread

I am not aware which women are and aren't ignored by the so-called "feminists" so I'll have to take your word for it.

 

Hi Jerry, to drive these older Ferraris without any electronic aids on a wet circuit, it is absolutely essential to be a pilot and it is not enough to be a driver like the old lady in the SF 90 that I mentioned before. In my case, I do not criticize those who like and identify themselves with the latest Ferrari models or even with the new electric Ferrari with fake sound that will be launched in 2025.
My criticism is only towards Ferrari and some of its most recent models with which I personally don't identify, either because of the designs or the engines whose sound is not even a remiscence of what IMO the sound of a Ferrari should be.
One thing I'm certain, as the new models get less appealing to one generation the older models tend to become more desirable.

 

Thanks.
You are not alone.

Marcel Massini

 

modern lossless audio files played through the most high tech audio system are empirically better it terms of sonic reproduction than a vinyl LP. Yet to me vinyl will always sound better, more natural and, yes, more nostalgic. But what do I know … I’d have a manual GT3 over any new Ferrari … and my favorite new production Ferrari is the Purosangue, a comment that might just get me banned around these parts …

 

For me, the Purosangue has two great virtues when compared with other unconvincing Ferrari models penned by the same man. The first is its V12 NA engine in line with Ferrari's best tradition and unique sound. The second is its design which, although innovative and sui generis, is coherent and not yet influenced by the new artistic trend drift where aerospace, science fiction and UFOs are part of the artist madness and obsession.

 

Australian designer Marc Newson also appears to play quite a role in recent sketches, and the new SUV-EV will suppoesdly be a Newson design.......
He's also been working for Louis Vuitton, Hérmes, Montblanc, Nike, Jaeger Le Coultre, Dom Pérignon.

Marcel Massini

 

Very eclectic designer, haute couture, perfumery, champagne and now Ferraris

 

On this video the presenters make several considerations about the F80 with which we may or may not agree. However, the most hilarious part is from minute 7:20 onwards where they show a real case of devaluation in which the owner wants to get rid of his SF 90.

 

I know of one, in Germany.

 

Amen. That's one of the reasons why, last week, I dropped my 12C allocation, and bought another F12.

 

Not the most intelligent owner really. The problem with not just ferrari but the whole market is that there have been many of these customers, buying on cheap rate finance, thinking that residuals will always do what they have recently done and are not smart enough to check or old enough to know, that there have been times when residuals for all brands, including Ferrari, have been very difficult. Moral? Don’t believe everyone who says it’s a good idea to buy on finance a high value, luxury product because you can use the cash for other things. This is a market, a financially complex one, and it is affected, like any other market, by demand and supply. There is no floor above zero and not even much of a ceiling.

We’ve just sold our AF coupe in favour of an XX Spider. It was not an especially pleasant experience from the viewpoint of the market. I knew it was coming but to see a brilliant and beautiful car, that I have enjoyed, in perfect condition, leave our garage for a significant sum less than we paid for it, is not especially nice. I’m sure many people here have had their opinion of Ferrari and other brands coloured by an experience like this. The fact is, though, taken in the round, I have had many other great experiences from Ferrari. Our 10-year-old Speciale is worth significantly more than I paid for it, with virtually no costs except fuel and insurance paid out and 15,000 really happy miles on the clock. Our Competizione, last year’s car, has appreciated too. Overall, I shouldn’t feel too unhappy - though in the moment it’s not nice and it will influence my thinking a little going forward. I enjoy the new crop of cars as much as the older ones. As with those difficult times on the older cars though, I do want to make sure the cost of ownership matches the enjoyment overall. No brand is able to really forget that. I think Ferrari are well aware of it. The message that they receive when the market is struggling is easy to decipher; people buy less.

The point is, to buy any of these cars you need to be mindful that the natural thing is for a car to depreciate. An expensive car should depreciate more as a rule. The exceptions arrive when supply is restricted or production ensures supply is below demand. Then maybe you can exist in an unnatural place, but it is not guaranteed. If you buy like the man in the video, beware. I think every experienced and long-time owner would give the same advice.

 

Great post. Absolutely on point…

 

Nice analysis and testimony.
The case of the SF 90 is paradigmatic as it is a model whose main attribute when it was launched in 2019 was that it was the most powerful and fastest road Ferrari. When, for example, we compare the SF 90 with a La Ferrari, it doesn't even seem like they were both penned by the same man. IMO the LaFerrari is a car aesthetically at the level of the best that have been made at Ferrari but the same cannot be said of the SF 90. Also regarding the power train and the sound, there is no possible comparison between a La Ferrari and the SF 90.
According to what I read, although there are no official numbers that can confirm this, approximately 3000 SF90s of both types were built. At the moment, on Autoscout 24 just in Europe alone, excluding the UK, there are 363 units for sale, which represents more than ten percent of the cars that were built. This partly explains the strong devaluation that the SF 90 has had.

 

Here’s the thing though, I’ve used and really enjoyed the SF90 - it is simply a brilliant car. We’ve done two fantastic road trips in it and I did a track day in it at Silverstone, plus the local mileage. The car was brilliant for all of it and stood up extremely well to what we asked of it. I loved driving it, more even than our Pista and maybe even more - in this decade - than our Speciale. As I’ve often commented, the world has changed a bit in Europe and it’s nice not to be too ‘shouty’. The hybrid SF90 is so well done, it can be as quiet as you like and when desired, provide a soundtrack that inspires you to drive harder. And when you drive harder, that thing is incredible.

Contrast that with the beautiful (but very expensive) LaFerrari. I’ve driven that about 50 miles. I love the LaF and it is indeed amongst the most beautiful cars ever produced. But the times and places you can reasonably use it are few. The beauty of the SF90 is that I have used and enjoyed it. It would have depreciated even if I did no miles in it so what does it matter - you can drive a SF90 without too much conscience. Does that make it a better Ferrari even if it’s not as good a car?

As a postscript, I do think there will come a time when the SF90 is appreciated by the market. I have no skin in the game now (our spider is a TM so we will not sell it). Whoever buys our car is getting an absolutely brilliant super-come-hyper car that, in my opinion, looks great, drives better and will not be expensive to own considering it is a 1,000hp Ferrari. Ferrari produced an incredible car in the SF90, which easily disposes of the 5-years-later Revuelto in terms of pace. That’s not everything of course, but I think the SF90 is quicker around a track, lighter and better-handling than the Lambo. It’s a car that was ahead of its time when launched and still today. It’s a shame that the market doesn’t see it that way but, as I said, I have a feeling that will change in time.

 

That was very well said. When we look back in a few years, we will see what an extraordinary technical achievement the SF90 was. Like you said, it was ahead of its time. Almost six years later, nothing can compete in terms of speed south of a million pounds. Yet it can cruise across the continent like an old GT, amazing bandwidth of ability and in the right spec looks an absolute spaceship.

 

Disagree.
And I don't want a spaceship anyway. I want a proper car, good looking and elegant, sporty, quick and none of the gimmicks and battery nonsense anyway.
Just my 2 cents. But hey, it's a free world.

Marcel Massini

 

If a 288 GTO costs 4 M+, this F80 can cost the same. In my opinion the nonsense price is for the 288, not for the F80. And the F40 (1300+ samples!) price is even more a nonsense: 2,5 M. Considering present day 288 and F40 prices, in my opinion the F80 is too cheap. And don't forget that all three have a three liters twin turbocharged V8.

Ciao

 

Wait until they build 250 to 400 Aperta F80s and people start selling the coupes at less than cost.

 

No, the F80 has a V6.

Please elaborate on why you are appalled by 288 and F40 prices. What in your opinion should they be worth?

 

Just a small correction. Although all three are turbocharged, the 288GTO and F40 have V8 engines and the F80 has a V6 engine. As we know, the price of a Ferrari largely has a lot to do with rarity and in this chapter the 288 GTO is one of the rarest Ferraris since it was released in 1984 with only 272 units built. From this perspective, I agree that it is absolute nonsense that an F40 with 1311 units built reaches values that could even be close to the 288 GTO. As for the F80, whose main virtue is basically being a powerful and fast car based on a Le Mans racing car, but which does not have a particularly beautiful design, which is a plug-in hybrid therefore an electrified car, whose combustion engine is a V6 and has one of the worst sounds of any Ferrari we've heard before and whose series will be 799 units, the biggest series after the F40. For all this the F80 seems too expensive for what Ferrari is offering. The current selling price of the F80, which is over 3.5 million Euros, is too expensive compared to the LaFerrari with only 499 cars built and a base selling price of 1-1.3 million Euros in 2013 which corrected for inflation, would be today around 1.4 -1.8 million Euros.

 

The 288 and F40 sat at 200-300k for 20 years +
So you cant compare them as the F80 does not have that history.

Im not even going to touch on subjective values for the 288 and F40 as some people might have the same for the F80.

 

It is important to mention that the F40 was the last Ferrari commissioned by Enzo.
The 288 GTO and F40 are both from the Enzo era. This alone greatly increases the value of both.
In addition, add to this the rarity of the 288, the incredible mythical nature and driving experience of the F40.
Let's also mention the history and craftsmanship of both. Timeless Ferraris.

 

The F40 especially shows that number produced influences demand (and therefore price) but is not the only thing. Also, there were quite a few less P1s built but P1 appreciation has been nothing like LaFerrari. I’m torn with regard to F80 pricing. Based on technology, performance and race-bred pedigree I could make an argument to justify its price, but really, I also do think it feels like too much - especially given the number produced. What might be interesting, per an earlier post of mine, is that when the F40 was released, many people drove them. The whole hyper car collector thing was not in such full swing as it has been over the last few years and people didn’t mind putting miles on them. Now, above very low miles, miles on an F40 don’t seem to make as much of a difference as provenance, condition and history.

If that’s what happens to the F80, maybe that isn’t a bad thing. People will be tempted to drive them more and any financial ‘reward’ comes later - if you hold onto it.

 

Plenty of younger buyers "investing" in Ferrari supercars lately do not even know that there was once a man named Enzo Ferrari, the founder. Some completely lack knowledge of the brand's history.

Marcel Massini