According to what Ferrari has announced, there will be 799 coupes and 599 Spiders.
I don't know about you - but my SF90 Spider took 3 years from debut. So from a new car announcement to delivery i2- 3 years in the US. If someone wants a Ferrari 1000hp - they will buy a used SF90. If someone waited 3 years they will order and again wait 2-3 years - no one knows what the next SF90 is but I assure you whatever it is will take 2- 3 years and the used SF90's will all get sold - repeat for decades. You know how many Scud coupes / Pista coupes vs 1000hp SF90 with a 7 year warranty, esp Spider versions - they imo aren't. going down for a long time. Lambo Aston Valhalla - would take SF90 all day long esp Spider. Valhalla has only taken 6 years and still don't have a working model while holding 150k deposits. The market today - who would you trust to buy from Lambo Aston Ferrari
Let's compare a V12 to a V12 of the same era. AV vs F12 F12 tdf 812 812 Comp - wanna take an average and see which one did better? I think it's strange but in a completely different way than you.
Sales to gain score - hmm So the guys who got.a 812 then Comp did bad? at 2-3x msrp? or tell me a track version that did not work out well for those who raised score - The guys who bought an SF90 and got an XX - people are selling allocations for 750k over Plus SF90's were selling for !m - flippers early on. The SF90 Spider stil sells over MSRP I'm sorry - what was that you said ? The 599 - they were selling for 150k over msrp - now not so much - all NA! Many owners received 599GTO - now at 1m. What about NA - it's just not true and it's been consistent for decades.
Regardless of the engine, these are compared bc they both are mid engine exotics in the 500k and up range. I'm sure a lot of people cross shop these if they aren't ferrari fan boys like us. Or even buy both. So my observation was that for a car that was probably half as available new, we now have 3x more than AV. There are probably a ton of diff reason, one being people want to hold onto the last na v12 lambo whereas the sf90 is just the first of a new range of v8tt hybrid so no sense in keeping one unless you really bonded w it
I'm not referring to buyers of the 812C, which is a wonderful, solid and collectible Ferrari. The first track version derived from models launched under this new management is the SF90 XX, which is still at the beginning of its cycle. So how can you ask that? The SF90 XX is the first track version with the "product philosophy" of this new management. The 812C derives from the 812, which derives from the F12. The 488 Pista derives from the 488 GTB, which derives from the 458. The 458 and F12 are LCDM-era projects, without heavy turbo-hybridization, digitalization and haptics. Strongly disagree, but I will respect your point of view. The 599 was bought by most people to use, to enjoy, at the time the gearbox, the Enzo engine, the design, was something sensational, and depreciation occurred normally over the years, since it was not limited. I don't think it's normal to see hundreds of SF90s and 296s for sale with less than 2,000 km, prices falling, with serious problems occurring due to complexity, with difficulties in finding second buyers. The scoring game has always existed, but it was something much more subtle and calm, and you acquired collectible cars that were also easy to sell to the second buyer. This management has turned this into an excess, selling at maximum profit some models that are consumable items, excessively digitalized, complex and difficult to find second owners. Not to mention the principle of maximum profit in the short term, stretching the margin, cutting costs at the expense of quality, with high dividend distribution to shareholders. CT did this at Stellantis (on a large scale), at first it seemed to work and generated euphoria and large dividends. The bubble burst and he has now left with the conglomerate collapsing, because this strategy is a failure in the long term.
It’s also worth mentioning that the SF90 is a relatively low production model especially compared to a 488, or even a Pista for that matter.
In Europe now (from mobile.de) there are plenty of SF90 asking for less than €400K (that put them below Pistas) and SF90 spiders for less than € 500K; in both cases they are certainly under MSRP at those prices. The number of SF90 for sale is about 300 - that compares to 208 F8 or 96 488 GTB, or 76 488 Pista. Selling any "exotic" car is currently challenging, but the SF90 appears to be even more problematic.
Def people cross shop - but until one has owned an SF90 that ranges from 500 - 1M TMade they don't understand the car. I owned an SV roadster - it's an event car ton of fun, as are most lambo's - Ferrari who has been more than lacking with performance, until the SF90 is just superior. Comfort Speed looks and holds its own against any super car. It's all good and fun - these are new times and they are fantastic machines - forget the dollars and cents. If that mattered we all wouldn't buy these cars. The great ones are really determined by the owner not anyone else.
Interesting that Brooks owned all and preferred the Rev over the SF. Said he needed more time in the 296 to determine where it sits. Guy knows his cars better than most.
Silly flat out silly. They said the same about manuals turbo's front engine rear engine ceramic brakes etc- any idea what Ferrari was the first rear engine? The Dino and it's modified engine was used for F1 - 6 cylinders, Fast forward the 599 was known for Enzo engine but it had tons of serious issues. Lots of Maser parts. Ferrar's were never built for the faint of heart - many people are to soft to get it. Not being mean but you have no idea. Drive a Daytona without power steering - lost more on FF and or 612 than I will ever los on my SF90. People had to buy those to get other models in part but not all. You all need to get over the haptics turbo hybrid - if not why are you here in this section? The same was said chrome bumpers manuals F1 turbo on and on and on. Ferrari is the world's best branding company and they are hard at work on all electric. It's ok people bet against Musk who almost went broke and Enzo who just wanted to go racing. You and others who think they are smarter than Ferrari - good luck. We all know this is new tech - no different than anyone who bought a Mclarn all new tech. You are either in or out but why you all post repeatedly the same issues when they are no different than every other change from a factory is mind boggling but it's free speech. Look around - 350k people just watched a Hybrid Ferrari win the championship.
The only thing I disagree with here is the 599. Yes, it was a sensation, many early cars trading for crazy large markups- in this way the SF90 is very much like the 599. It was about putting massive power in a more accessible car. And the early SF90s traded, some for over 1m in the US. With the 599, we went into the great financial crisis , and that killed values, and yes, people discovered the car was not quite the full realization of the concept. That happened with the F12. However, in between the two models we got the 599 GTO. And yet, there is plenty to love with the 599. When people talked about the 599 values, they always would compare the depreciation from the peak of the values, which is silly, since those numbers were a few early trades. I think the same happens with the SF90. Take a look at where cars are trading vs the msrp. I dont think it’s that bad. While we didn’t get a great financial crisis, we did get, in a bizarre way, almost the opposite, with what we could call the “Covid Car Craze” and, now, its aftermath, where we are basically returning to normal. Another thought to consider- the 599 still played into the traditional Ferrari product plan where a 12 cylinder car was the flagship. The SF90 is a much bigger change. It would be interesting to chart appreciation/ depreciation from MSRP of the 599 vs the SF90 based on year after first cars on market. My gut feeling is you will see the % change of each model not being too far away from each other. With the SF90, I think there are plenty of parallels, and it is a little bit misunderstood car, even perhaps by the management. Where should it have been priced/ how many should have been made? At this point these decisions are already made…. But now we are getting the XX. How will it drive? How will it be received? Time will tell. But I am a believer in Raffaele de Simone and his team to make a car that is engaging and fun to drive, yet isn’t going to throw you into the weeds. And then we will have the car that follows up the SF90… by rumors it seems to be an SF90 “M” model, what will they change, etc.
Well, don’t want to be rude but doing drag races with cars is knowing them better compared with people who are driving them on twisty mountain’s roads ?
The 599 is a fantastic car IMHO - but at that time it was usual for the V12 to get huge depreciation; my feeling is that it was accepted by the V12 customers, who were very few compared to the V8 customers. I think one current issue has been the expansion of the customer base, which has implied that many customers were conquered by making them believe the actual ownership cost would be minimal thanks to an allegedly booming second hand market. Of course these customers are not prepared for the huge depreciation that was known and accepted by the few V12 customers some decades ago, and that changes the perception of the situation.
He flips vehicles all the time for his channel and raves about all of his cars while he owns them so he can strengthen his resale. The Revuelto, the embarrassment that it is, just happens to be the newest one in his lineup. Don’t fall for his games.
Eh, I watch his videos. He’s pretty honest about his driving opinions after ownership. He liked the Rev for the drama which is what that car does well. His amount of seat time (both casual and driving them all hard) is uniquely informative.
He’s been doing the same stuff for many, many years. Raves about all of his cars to help help him sell them when a new one comes in, raves about his new one, rinse and repeat. My buddy has a Rev, and he’s told me privately its junk, but he won’t post about it because he’s afraid Lambo won’t take care of him if he does. Terrible situation to be be in.
I’m confident 99% are immune. A significant number of the unfortunate 1-2% that are having real issues understandably complain on this forum. Everyone else is just enjoying their cars.
Not true, most owners aren't here and manu are having problems. In most cases they get reasonably resolved it not all. I think this is hurting the resale market, people are scared to buy these cars.
