SF90 Stradale Resale

He made sure his brother bought a Senna
You hit the nail on the head - great entertainer and good guy but he has a living to make and buying / selling cars is very important.

 

I'm immuned - but felt same on Mac MP4 and many other great cars. Even the Viper had issues / sold it for triple what I paid and 4x more on the Carrera GT.
Many complained about Viper engine and same on the stupid Carrera GT clutch
296 SF90 - when they go all electric ... we will see.

 

Was that a Gen V Viper? The engine is a disaster in that one, after decades of using the same block supplier (Zeus/ZAP in UK) they went with someone else with no quality and terrible internals (block washing on the assembly line? pathetic way to save a buck!) and bad design (very difficult to know engine oil level, easy to get it wrong, really wrong), there were other issues with the Gen V (ACR using tires not rated to take the load so they blow apart after brief use, etc)

 

I recently drove the SF90 spider. I thought the engine sound was a big disappointment- sounded almost ill to my ears- not much range and the off in pitch. Yet, I hear so few comments about the sound. For me, it destroyed the experience to the point that I wouldn’t want one at almost any price. In fact, I would prefer full electric as I prefer no sound to bad sound.

 

Yes. MSRP 141k dealer gave me #4 of the ACR-E GTS-R - Dealer was known to build stage 2 which I had them do to fix all issues and basically build the fastest car possible. They were going for 400k regardless ,time being modified got 3's on BaT. Point is nothing mattered and the factory did make some adjustments to the engine issue - they all doubled and tripled regardless. So the fact that the car had issues meant nothing later on

IMO - the SF90AF will be the 360 Challenge Stradale or Scud in a decade or two or 16m is Spider, regardlesss of what is todays view - my thought. is it's the best car of it's era.
The XX will be in it's own world - of course depending if Ferrari and I don't think they will make another XX.

 

Same thoughts! Wish I never got rid of my ACR… sold it to a friend for 150k after that they went up lol

 

Ouch! The dealers were hogging all allocations - BJ Motors bought 50 and then the dealer editions etc
I don't miss mine - 800hp manual is so easy to replace - looked as good as a Senna in street presence. I took it to the Ferrari dealer and they started picking it apart - until they realized all stainless steel fittings carbon everywhere at the price of carbon options / paint on a std Ferrari,

 

Definitely had street presence! And what a picnic size wing it had lol could put a whole spread on it

 

Huge wing -
True story. On Viper forum people were bashing Viper esp the ACR-E with it' engine / oil etc issues. I took the approach, stuck up for the factory as they will either fix the issue or fix the car - it's under warranty. Later they did fix the issue and no blown engines that I know of -
Because of the post - head engineer read the forum and sent a message.
Appreciating the post and asked for my order number etc.
At time of production he added some items.
Model copy of my car in speed form - two covers one with my name and signatures of the guys who built the car and a Viper race bag full of Viper clothing and race suit. Also an invite to the factory for the final picture day. Extra bag of spoilers - those who do not know, they arrive in a separate bag for install.

 

After two SF90’s (‘21 Coupe now sold, ‘23 Spider TM will be kept) and some thousands of miles, I have always said ours have seen no problems at all. Well, we have now had a problem. Not on the ‘21 coupe but on the ‘23 spider. Would you believe it, the HVAC unit! It started blowing hot air one side and cold air the other, necessitating a new unit, which took a while. Still no issues on the hybrid system though. I suppose the point is that you can have a HVAC problem on any car. It’s still annoying and meant that we took a ‘24 Roma Spider on a yearly road trip with mates. Unfortunately, that had a battery/electronics issue on the trip - a non-hybrid car which let us down. If I’m honest, I didn’t really enjoy that car on a road trip. Great for daily type driving but I really missed the SF90 spider. There were two 296’s on the trip, neither had any kind of issue over a few thousand miles between them. I’m sure there are those with issues but I just haven’t seen them, and I know quite a few people with either SF90s or 296s. What almost all do say is that the cars are brilliant to drive.

I don’t think the resale issues are to do with reliability directly. I think they are to do with high price, market taste not quickly accepting hybrids (parts of the market think they are less pure and ‘new-fangled’), and suggestions on forums that ‘most’ cars have issues. Eventually, all three things will get resolved. The (used) price has dropped, in my view the cars are more reliable than is indicated on forums and people will come to understand what great cars they are in the modern world. In the meantime, new production will remain low because demand is low. When/if sentiment changes, the SF90 could find favour and see comparative strength from where it is today. I’m not saying ‘appreciation’ because who knows what the market will do but it’s theoretically possible from where they sit today. Either way, the car we just sold makes a very compelling purchase and I would have no hesitation buying one over a Pista. (Full disclosure, we do have a Pista so why sell an SF90? Our Pista is TM and so is our SF90 spider and an XX spider is arriving so can’t keep all three! Therefore, the non TM AF coupe had to go. What a car it is and has been for us. Good job, because it was our most expensive car to have ever owned.)

 

Had a small issue with mine also .. sent me nice painting of my cat from the designer cool car guy too this was at thermal
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lol I meant to type car instead of cat…need to use my glasses more

 

I'd argue buyers are scared to buy them because people greatly exaggerate how many problems they have.

 

Who would do that and what’s the motivation? I don’t see the sense in it.

 

It happens constantly in here, Dust. There are a few actual owners who have issues (legitimate ones), but then you get a bunch of other people who pile on and talk about "all of the issues the hybrids have" without ever having owned one or having any personal experience with them. So, what ends up happening is a false narrative is created that the cars are significantly more problematic than they actually are. The reality is a lot of people truly want these cars to fail, so they have no issues with adding to the BS whenever they can.

 

If sf90’s are so limited and desirable why are there 150 coupes listed for sale on Cars.com? Car is super fast. Looks nice. Trading for 1- 200K+ off MSRP essentially unused. Is it reliability or poor engine sound? There’s a reason…

 

Two reasons. Many are cars that were traded and/or for sale when owners’ spiders arrived, and because non-owners actually believe the BS that they’re unreliable. But they don’t make them anymore, they are potentially the best cars you buy for under $1M, and once the availability of used cars diminishes and people finally realize that they are actually quite reliable, the prices will come back up.

 

Best cars for under 1MM? I drove a 296GTS back to back with a SF90 spider. For the road, speed difference is imperceptible. SF90 only faster from a stop because all wheel drive which also takes away from playfulness.

The 296 sounds way, way better too, 296 is also more fun to drive and costs way less. The 296 coupes are also languishing (over 200 coupes on Cars.com) and it is arguably better for the road (more pleasurable) and they have traded as much as 20%+ percent off MSRP and essentially unused. Prices are also headed lower.

Don’t get me wrong, I see the value in the 296- at a lower price.

One problem both share are the awful touch controls- setting the mirrors is a ridiculous amongst other controls. People are worried about the cost of battery replacements too. Ferrari could alleviate that by publishing reasonable replacement numbers. Not happening. Future cars will have better controls and better batteries (and better sound and better performance). Little to make these cars endearing for the future.

There is a reason these cars are languishing in large numbers at deep discounts (for a modern Ferrari). Lower prices will clear the market. How much lower?

 

That’s great that you drove both. I’ve owned both.

I prefer the SF90 (even though the 296 does sound better), but the 296 is utterly outstanding and I currently have a GTS on order. So yes, to me the best car under a $1M is the SF90, while the 296 and 765 are up there as well, but opinions vary. I truly believe both will eventually settle at the correct prices (higher the they are now) in a year or two, but I guess we’ll have to wait and see.

 

Fair enough.

 

I prefer the presence of SF90 ….it will always be the BIG BOY one could say Huracan is better than Aventador but it will never have Aventador presence!

 

I agree with that too- except for the engine sound- awful. Aventador engine is sound is comparatively unworldly good. Looks and sound is why the Aventador retains its value despite its weaknesses. IMO.

 

For whatever reason I find the spider version of these cars sound better, even with the top up. I think the biggest issue with the SF90 is its positioning. The 296 is clearly the successor to the mid engine line up. The SF90 is supposed to be the new flagship, it’s a brilliantly effective car, but not as emotional as the V12, and I think thats where the market has gotten a bit confused. I am sure there are great reasons on why, but for my 2 cents- and yes- hindsight is 20/20- I’d say the SF90 would have been even better with the V12.

 

Because for years people made money - interest rates rise / prices drop because they do not want a huge payment and depreciation.
Add people are afraid of hybrid - wait til they are all electric - then be afraid!
Bad news travels fast - so new buyers are more cautious. Ferrari knows this and will make sure their cars have value - it's a long term relationship with their customers - you will not find another car company better than Ferrari - history proves it.

On a completely different subject - Jeep raised their price almost 50% - CEO fired and now offering 14k rebates on old engine. V6
2.0 V4 - going forward will have a big price reduction.
Old car guys knows the value of special engines and displacement - the best engine builder is Ferrari
Get em while you can -

 

Better? IMO- it’s pretty bad. So bad- for my ears- un-buyable at almost any price vs purchasing a 296. And some people like different engine sounds. Or they haven’t heard better. Or they’re hard of hearing?

Yes 12 cylinders would have been better and it would add weight to an already heavy car. Maybe they should have just removed the turbos- then the sound might have been glorious?