SF90 Stradale Resale

They made a lot more 812s? Tell us the global production numbers for both cars.

The cars the same year, similar mileage as my car that are for sale are priced at around 8-10% off sticker, which is normal for Ferrari. The SF90 market will clear, and prices will rebound since it's such an amazing car (far better in every, single way then an 812 or GTS), except sound, which people don't seem to care too much about since there are over 150 cars for sale. Using your logic, people don't seem to like them very much. As you said, the market speaks!

 

The market does speak.

The 812 GTS sells used for sticker to above (mostly above).

The SF90 sells for way under sticker- period. The worst resale values of any modern 8 cylinder Ferrari at the same age.

Prices of both cars will go lower until the market clears the supply.

When excess supply is gone prices can settle and later increase.

Not difficult. Rinse and repeat.

 

Not difficult at all. There are over 150 available 812s at a much more manageable price point for most people to justify, yet people still don’t seem to want them. But according to you, this logic is only a negative when you apply it to the SF90.

It’s pretty clear at this point that you’re nothing more than a troll.

 

Sour grapes. This is a thread about the resale value of the SF90. You don’t like reality. I stated my opinion on why the SF90 is selling poorly in the secondary market. I was in the market for an SF90 until I drove it. Just one data point.

The 812 GTS is a red herring. Start a thread on the 812 forum if you want to discuss that. Troll? LOL

 

Not sour grapes. I’d rather have a Purosangue over a 812 GTS. Same sound, better looks, and more practical. And of course the 812 can’t hold a candle to a SF90 in any driving related category. I’m also not concerned about the resale value of my car at all. It’ll be fine.

What this is, is a 812 owner who admittedly would never buy a SF90 at any price, has never owned one, but decided to come into the SF90 forum to talk trash about the car and the resale values. You are the literal definition of a troll. And because I’m not a troll like you, you’ll never catch me in the 812 forum doing what you’re doing here.

 

Again, this is a thread about the resale value of the SF90. The car is doing poorly on the resale market and I provided my explanation. Your response is to deflect.

 

Your logic has to do with how many cars are for sale on Cars.com. I showed you that the car that you’ve been comparing it to with regards to sound, the 812, which you seem to imply that everybody loves, is also doing poorly on Cars.com. So my post isn’t to deflect, it’s simply to show you that your logic is flawed and you have no clue what you’re talking about, troll.

 

Nothing fights an argument like a fact.

 

No. This is a thread about the resale of the SF90. In excess of 150 cars for sale of such a low production vehicle is indicative of lower prices to come to clear the market from the current depressed level.

As a comparison to the 812 GTS- one would be correct to make a similar prediction- lower prices will be required to clear the supply.

The difference between those two cars are the current recent transaction levels. The 812 GTS is actually doing much better than other modern 12 cylinder cars (around sticker to above) where as the SF90 is doing worse than other modern 8 cylinder cars.

I opined on the possible reasons for the poor resale values. Just my opinion and other people are welcome to comment.

If I had unlimited resources to collect cars (I don’t)- I too would buy an SF90 at a price that made sense for its attributes.

 

Almost every car is doing poorly in the secondary market. We are long past the post pandemic boom. The next gen cars will likely do even worse (Revuelto, 12C, SF90 replacement, Temerario, 720/765/750 replacement will all get crushed in large part to the manufacturer pushing the pricing to the absolute extreme). I think it’s common knowledge that the 812 platform had a larger production quantity than the SF90. How much larger is pure conjecture. I also think that the 812 GTS is probably a little firmer than the SF90 with respect to original MSRP, at least at the moment. The SF90 is a phenomenal car (don’t own one, but maybe someday?), and I am forever puzzled why the car is so soft despite being so well thought of.

 

Tell me the production numbers for both models to back up your claim of it being “low production”. Also, as has been said, but clearly went over your head, there exists a recent influx of Stradales that were dumped into the market when owner’s Spiders began arriving. That takes time to stabilize with any model.

You’re in here making assumptions about a market that looks very similar to the 812 market, which has had much more time to stabilize, but is still quite bad. Yet your agenda causes you to claim the SF90 market is a problem, even though it still hasn’t had enough maturity to stabilize, while simultaneously trying to justify why the 812 market is not. It’s disingenuous and indicative of trolling.

 

I agree. Have you driven any version of the SF90?

 

It’s common knowledge that the SF90 production is lower. Prove me wrong.

Both cars came out in 2021. Right? They have had the same amount of time to “settle”. Relative to sticker the 812GTS is doing much better and better than any modern regular production V12. Again this isn’t a thread about the resale value of the 812 GTS. You brought that into the conversation as a deflection.

Poor resale is a reflection of the prices the cars are trading at to clear supply. Not seller asking prices either.

 

I have not. Oddly enough, I’ve never driven any of my cars (current or former) before buying them.

 

The 812SF availability has been drying up, fewer than 40 on Autotrader(USA).
The 812GTS is a different car, 107 currently on Autotrader, combining the two into one group does not make any sense at all. For example, every 812GTS has GPF, very few of the 812SF (USA) have GPF.

Global production of either is without value as a comparison because you cannot import one to USA (maybe from Canada) but rest of world cannot be imported before the year 2043 (2018 model year + 25 years). And we know that 812SF USA production was around 1100 total cars.

 

Could also be that the true delta is < $100k over for GTS vs SF but sellers are hoping to hold the illusion of the super high delta.

Similar seems to be going on for 296, people holding prices above where buyers are some of that is starting to break which led me to get one (Dec 24).

 

Since we’re talking residuals, it seems logical to conclude that turbo has little to do with the SF90’s plight but retail price positioning and hybrid have everything to do with it. There are turbo cars, like Pista, that have done well for residual, and n/a cars that have done poorly. Our experience is obviously UK but we lost 1/3 on GTS but would lose less than that on Pista Spider if we sold. We would lose about the same or a little more on SF if we sold.

The main issue for SF90 is the fact that it is the halo product, launched into a market that did not (and still does not) fully understand, appreciate and value hybrid. A high proportion of the used Ferrari market simply won’t entertain it for various reasons - sound, price, complication, reliability, confidence in residual and the product itself given what noise there is from people who write on forums. Essentially, the used market for the car is undeveloped and the original retail is high. 1+1=2. I don’t think the car is especially limited and its high MSRP adds complication. Remember, this is a new market segment, twice, for Ferrari. A first halo product above the V12 and a first hybrid. The used market clearly doesn’t know what to make of either, which amplifies SF90’s problems. This will settle down after a period but at what level is hard to say. As more accurate information becomes available to the used market (I.e. what experience used buyers have after purchase) confidence will increase and so will price level, so long as used buyers have a good experience, which I think they are likely to unless they find the car too fast and too complicated. Supply will also dry up once the XX effect wears off. It is, in fact, very easy to make the argument that SF90 at highly depreciated levels is the best used Ferrari bargain currently available. Our AF coupe was a brilliant car that we paid a lot more for than we sold it at. Whoever buys it is getting a half-million pound car at very much less than that. It is like new, 1,000hp, ballistic and good-looking. They will buy it with 2 years Ferrari warranty at a lower price than a highly spec’d TM Roma Spider. There’s absolutely no comparison.

 

This makes a lot of sense.
For me, and my car nut associates, we are not buying the SF due mostly to the looks and poor sound combined with ridiculous price. Many cars are quick and or fast, it’s the visceral experience that drives the motivation along with lustful visuals. Oddly the 296 GTS does a better job here.

 

I watched this. I’ve seen a couple of his other videos. I don’t really know what to make of him but he races a 488 (and crashed a couple of times so it seems, so pushes quite hard). He also has a wide-ranging collection so has good reference points. His review is exactly what I would say. Sound under a bit of load is at 31.10 and ends the sound quality argument for me. It sounds so like our Speciale, just a little quieter.

As I know from personal experience, his comment about tyres is absolutely on point. You need to make sure they are warm. Even if you have thousands of miles on Speciales, Pistas, 812s. This car is different gravy and normal rules do not apply. If you’ve owned one you know. Bring the temps in well and it’s brilliant. Get lazy and find out you’re not.

His point about how playful the car is is correct in my opinion. And he’s right about steering feel probably being the weakest dynamic point too. Not sure if he is an Fchat member but I thought he did a good and accurate review. “It’s a bargain”. Hard to argue.

 

Same reasons I never bought an SF90. I could care less how much it falls in price as the car ticks zero important boxes. GTS does the better job but even it fails to deliver in areas I consider important. For me it's primarily a gateway car at this stage - definitely not a car I would consider a keeper. Both are going to cop a similar hiding on the resale for obvious reasons.

 

How long have you driven them? What conditions and where? Driving these cars around the block from the dealership tells you nothing, I see these comments all the time, regurgitating from internet folklore after few short test drives, I immediately know the narrator has no or very limited experience with the cars.

I have a tone of experience with the SF90, thousands of miles in various conditions and environments, same with the F296 granted nowhere near the same miles I had a longer term loan car and I didn’t want to pile the miles on (ordered one after so I can use it as my daily) my SF90 is part of my 10 plus sports cars garage of all sorts of makes and models and IMO like some owners said here there is no more complete and accomplished car than the SF90S AF under $1m, show me one that does everything as well as the SF90 does.

I am picking my Revuelto up next month and I will be able to compare both, I have done quite a bit of driving in the Revuelto but all track, so far I haven’t been able to drive it on the street, I can’t wait to compare it with my SF90 in real life scenarios.

Also all this talk about values etc. it really boggles my mind why would anyone stretch to buy these toys considering that they are one of the worse financial decisions you can make then constantly moan and ***** about it, very weird.

 

Congrats on the Revuelto ! Totally agree

 

In fairness, this is a value thread. The thread title makes it plainly clear. I have mentioned this a couple times in this thread, I don’t personally care about the SF90 resale value, I don’t own one, and actually the drop in value has made them more attractive by reducing the price of entry. However, I do find the situation interesting because I wonder if it’s a harbinger for the future overall Ferrari value equation changing, or if it’s simply a one off.

 

Wasn't your R to arrive 2 months ago (October) ? Is there is story to the delay?

As for the SF90, ongoing extreme maintenance costs will forever burden the secondary market, for any Ferrari hybrid. Even with specific warranty (at large cost) the EV battery and inverter and EV motors are all future consumables and no one wants to be left without a chair when the music stops. And when those eventual replacements begin to occur, will Ferrari take a year or other long time period to provide replacements (witness LaF), I would tend to think so, we'll see the reports around 2030 how that's going...