Ferrari F80

Is this how you do things in your civilised country?

By your logic all laws are questionable, because people wrote them. I don't agree with all the laws either, but that doesn't give me the right to break the ones I don't fancy... If I do, I won't object to the consequences.

 

Sure. I dont agree with all the laws either and when possible, i do what i want even if it means i might face consequences later. Esp when it's something as stupid as this. Being lectured by *******s about noise and pollution when they are flying private or moving around in 20 cars to cover 1 mile..they can fudge off.

 

Another video at Ferrari NY and some configurator fun.

 

If f80 owners change its exhaust it will sound like a ****ty generic V6. I'd rather have an old NA1/NA2 NSX over this fast, heavy and ugly car imho. Also the C30/C32 v6 is probably the best sounding V6 together with the Busso V6

 

When I see some comments, I wonder if anyone knows about automotive technology and follows motorsport. It’s incredible to be so ignorant.
This car is a true technological marvel, just like the Mercedes AMG One. But I see that many people are only interested in counting the number of cylinders.

 

Right now the F80 is without a doubt the Ferrari that has the most muffled and uninteresting sound of all. That's why I mentioned before that because it is an exclusive Ferrari that costs around $4 million, I have many doubts that some of its future owners, who also own many other Ferrari models, will be able to live with something that is almost inaudible. That's why I mentioned that changing the exhaust system will probably be the only way future owners could make the F80 more audible and interesting. However, the most that the F80 can aspire to achieve in terms of sound is to be similar to the 499P LMH whose V6 Turbo sound in turn is much inferior to that of any Ferrari V6, V8 and V12 NA.

 

I think modifying the exhaust (without any impact to reliability) would be very complex with the e turbos and statistical knock calibration.

“The F80 is equipped with the first Ferrari road car engine to benefit from a new approach for statistical knock control, which lets the engine operate even closer to the knock limit, allowing the use of higher combustion chamber pressures than ever (+20% compared with the 296 GTB) to unleash even more of the engine’s potential.”

 

The overall driving experience of the 499P, including the noise, is actually quite exciting and visceral. Of course, one can be fixated on just one kind of noise: the NA engine kind, in which case everything is inferior to an NA Formula 1 car.

The base engine noise in the 499P is not sonorous, but it's very loud in the cockpit. That + the electric motor whine makes it very engaging, especially in the Modificata, where the hybrid delivery/regen happens all the time. Just like how the throttle pedal "controls" the noise in an NA car, the throttle pedal in the 499P Modificata controls a composite noise that is very dynamic in correlation to speed and inputs (brake/throttle), and that's what makes it enjoyable.

As for the F80 achieving a sound similar to the 499P: no, I doubt it, partly because of what @sailfly said:

...and also because the 499P doesn't have much of an exhaust "system". This is impractical, if not impossible in the F80, short of butchering it.

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The technology is remarkable. But if it doesn't evoke emotion, what is its purpose?

The speed, the technology may elicit that emotion for some, but not for all. To label anyone who isn't sold simply on the technological achievement as ignorant is, well...

There's nothing wrong with loving the car, it really is a technological marvel. But your reaction to others' responses is a bit absurd.

Sidebar: I've said this before, but I find the racing credentials dubious at best. Yes, there are many similarities between the F80 powertrain and the powertrains used in F1 and at Le Mans. But this configuration is used in racing because it's mandated by F1 regulations and encouraged by the ACO. The emphasis of those regulations is increased efficiency. Which, for me at least, is not particularly interesting in the context of racing and performance cars.

This is to take nothing away from the engineering achievements under these regulations, which are miraculous. But it's not like they're running V6 hybrids because they represent some Platonic racing ideal.

 

Yet for some people all this is rocket science, they don't understand or care about, but what matters is that it doesn't make enough vroom-vroom (on the outside at least)...

 

Yes.

 

Both are GARBAGE: ugly and with a **** engine.

 

Brilliant post !!!
My thoughts exactly. In F1 they use puny V6's cause they are forced to, not cause they want to.

 

Dystopia.

 

The F80’s engine size and configuration is not driven by any regulation, is almost two times as large as an F1 engine, and unlike the uneven firing order of the 90 deg. F1 engines this is an even firing 120 deg. design with harmonics more similar to a V12 engine.

Possibly the sound level of this engine will be too mild for some with a taste for the ostentatious but the tone of the engine can’t be compared to any regular V6.

 

Well like it or not 'Utopia' is populated with loud V12's. Not the magnificent efficiency of masses of muzzled V6 cars that are somehow touted as the second coming that all Good Christians should applaud...

 

A microwave oven is amazing technology but I’ll take a flame grilled steak any day of the week. Put me in the ignorant bucket.

 

Ferrari's unique appeal went beyond just engine sound - it was about the complete visceral experience of driving one. While we can't judge the F80's overall feel yet, recent Ferrari models (12ci, F8, SF90) have lost some of that emotional engagement that traditionally set them apart. For many owners and enthusiasts, the distinct engine note was a crucial part of Ferrari's special character, not just a vroom vroom.

 

Utopia means different things to different people. Like most car enthusiasts, I love a howling V12. The problem is when people don't realise that there are rules and regulations that they have to abide by in the real world. Someone even replied "f**k the law". This seems to be a US affliction, as I haven't seen many European members here being so vocal about not following the rules. Usually, I don't like to categorise people, but there is discernible pattern here that follows geographical regions.

Many owners here beg to differ about how visceral modern Ferraris are. It is not all about being loud and that makes me think that this is an American thing...

 

I said it wasn't just about loud. And I'm not American. Top gear is a prime example. They don't love new ferraris anymore bc they aren't visceral anymore. Same for Evo or Chris Harris. None of them liked the sf90 for example. Great cars. Not great Ferraris.

 

Which TG are you referring to? The 3 old geezers? I never cared for them, especially Clarkson. Harris is a great driver but he has weird tastes in cars. Even he likes modern Ferraris, though. Not that anyone should care about what some self-entitled hacks think. After all Clarkson's judgement about a great Ferrari was how the 360 Stradale screamed, because he couldn't drive a car properly anyway... So, what I am saying is that all this talk about "not proper Ferrari anymore" is BS and anyone in a position to drive one of these amazing machines (I am not talking only about Ferraris) should do so and judge for themselves whether they like them or not.

 

That was Johnny Bravo. He's known for being a bit over-the-top. His expressions can hardly be extrapolated.

I'm not sure if Johnny is American. Other than him, I believe the others commenting on the law were Day355 and Amanesce. I don't think either is American. And neither was arguing to break the law, only critiquing the laws and the lawmakers.

I'll also note - as an American - that the European noise and particulate emmissions limits have not been adopted here. It is by choice that Ferrari adheres to those regulations uniformly across all markets. Which is frustrating.

This is not the first time you've expressed contempt for "American" preferences. It's tiresome. American car culture is extraordinarily varied. It has its vulgar contingents, but I doubt that this is unique to the US.

North America also boasts many of the most passionate, knowledgeable and sincere enthusiasts one could hope to meet. Many would agree with your opinions, many would disagree. None would appreciate the condescension.

 

Very cool, thank you for sharing this. I doubt I'll ever get the chance to drive a 499P of any variety. I'd certainly like to - I'm sure I'd enjoy it.

But your point still resonates (pun intended). I was fortunate to spend a lot of time trackside during testing for some 911 GT1s back in the day. I wouldn't say they sounded beautiful, but I loved the hearing the wastegates whistle when the drivers lifted. It remains one of my favorite automotive memories.

So, your description is a good reminder. Even if a twin turbo V6 will never sound as good to my ears as an NA V12, that doesn't mean I can't enjoy the new experiences these cars may have to offer. At the very least, I should be open-minded.

Still, I will always lament the extinction of the engines I love most. Sure, I can still enjoy the cars from the back catalog, but as time passes, they will age and become harder to maintain and use with regulatory. And I'll always wonder: what could they have done had these resources been poured into a new V12? It probably couldn't have happened in this political and regulatory environment. But I bet it would have been magnificent.

 

You are being quite polite about him; but yes, let's stay at that...

Think that he has said so, but let's not make this too personal. Let it be...

They were arguing against the laws. If I may, I don't like some laws either. But we either live in a law abiding society, or we don't. A Mad Max dystopia is not my ideal society.

It is amazing how it usually comes down to loud noises though, over throttle modulation, mid-corner balance and absolute performance (other than the 0 - 1/4th mile). Didn't mean to be condescending.

 

"Loud" is your word. I believe that most people are lamenting the loss of sound, not volume. It does need to be loud enough to envelop you. I don't know how loud that is. Probably louder than 72db. But it need not be ostentatious.

As for your more important point: many of us are satisfied with the throttle response, balance and performance we can get from a car with an NA V12. So, while we these new cars may move the ball forward along these dimensions,* it's mostly academic.

What's not academic is the loss of the soundtrack that can add so much to the experience. Hence the emphasis.
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* The throttle response and torque fill is cool, but also feels a bit organic. The performance gains are substantial, but (a) are rarely accessible, and (b) I'm sure they could also have achieved impressive results with other configurations. As for dynamics, they cannot be helped by the added weight of the hybrid system. If they can cover up the added weight with clever aerodynamics and electronics, imagine why they could do with 300 fewer kilograms!

For what it's worth, your arguments land far better with me when you focus on the substance. Do with that what you will.