Ferrari F80

Aluminum front crash structure. Front aluminum subframe/suspension pickup points to simplify carbon tub production process. Rear aluminum subframe for engine. Rear aluminum crash structure. Cheaper and older cars like the Veyron, CGT have had rear carbon subframes. Even the F50, Enzo, LaF, along with cheaper cars like Mclarens and Alfa 4cs had the front suspension pickups integrated into the tub.
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F40 is the best driver's Ferrari I've ever owned (mine has the DK carbon brake conversion). I won't go back to a modern V8 (or V6) Ferrari since the F40 entered my garage.

 

Interesting set of sketches where you can see the process of decaffeination. Each step abandons a nice idea except for some reason the ugliest part stays (vertical flat front fender). Midway you can see some details that stay, surely designers will be proud of that. But a collection of details hardly makes a beautiful whole if you can't keep proportions...

 

The last time they designed a new V12 it yielded returns for 20 years on its investment. A new V12 may be regulated out of existence in the next 5 years. Be intellectually honest, if it was your business would you make that investment? Ground up V12 designs are for boutique manufacturers now, blame the vegans in Brussels.

 

By the way Ladas served their specific role well, so it's not a reproach against them.

Do you know why Ladas have a defroster on the rear window? It's to keep your hands warm while you push it!

 

Somehow I didn't post the article's last page. Here it is.




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Thanks for posting that. It was an interesting read. The progression from initial thought to finished design was logical and interesting to me. Starting with the Vision GT and toying with the idea of a single seat car. Personally, I’m glad they didn’t do that because it would have made it difficult for us to own and use such a car.

Their solution - to do a 1+1 seating arrangement - is interesting. Saving 50mm in width is a lot, however when I sat in the passenger seat, it felt pretty closed-in to me (I’m 6ft tall and on the broader side). I think it was easier for my wife, who is smaller. The 70mm steering wheel height reduction is also very noticeable. It makes quite a difference to how the car feels from the interior.

Seeing how the car developed from the Vision GT into the F80 is fascinating. I felt I could see the F40 links with this car from the first time we saw the final mules so it was nice to hear the F40 mentioned. Although some hate the design, as everyone knows, I don’t see that. Instead, I see the same design skill and flair that brought us the cars that preceed it. I love the way it looks. It’s exactly as a Ferrari hyper car should look.

 

In this article Flavio Manzony says: “The F80 overstepped Ferrari’s codes and created something unique that went beyond the typical aesthetic canons of cars….”. He also states that “in order to enable the transition, Ferrari moved away from the classic human traits to approach those of the most cutting-edge aeronautics.”

Although this nouvelle Manzoni’s aesthetic expresses itself in a very competent way through the F80 the concept of form embracing function, it is not revolutionary or unique as he wants us to believe. In 1969 when Flavio Manzoni was still only 5 years old, Ferrari presented at the Turin Motor Show the revolutionary Pininfarina’s designed Ferrari 512 S Berlinetta Speciale concept which almost shocked everyone. The shock factor came from it being the first Ferrari to receive the revolutionary ‘wedge’ treatment that marked a departure from Ferrari’s traditional aesthetics which were curvaceous.

Everything that Flavio Manzoni mentions about the F80's design happened long before with the 512 S Berlinetta Speciale. The car was also created to be something revolutionary, it was also based on cutting-edge aeronautics and was definitely unique beyond the typical aesthetic canons of any car. As far as I know, I could be wrong, only two 512 S Berlinetta Speciale were built because it was too shocking to go beyond being only a concept car. Although I recognize the revolutionary nature of the design of the 512 S Berlinetta Speciale, I personally don't like it. In parallel, but without questioning at all the technological excellence of the F80 and its unique performance merits, regarding its design I find it too futuristic for my taste and that’s probably because I am already an old-fashioned Ferrarista.



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Thanks for your input,
Does the carbon fiber tub looked qualitative or « cheap « ?

 

The heavy use of aluminum is interesting. While it is obviously cost effective, there could be also multiple other sensible reasons for this, such as:

1) Modularity (improvements can be made to special editions)
2) Packaging (e.g. around huge s-duct and the electric front axle)
3) Heat tolerance around the ICE (carbon aging)
4) Crash protection regulations (reduced g-forces during a crash)
5) Repairability (small structural damages can be fixed much easier/cheaper)
6) Accessibility to components (complex car with multiple systems)

I don't see the use of aluminum bad at all from the owners point of view. Would be nice to learn more about the subject from Ferrari, though.

 

Definitely doesn’t look cheap!

 

From Dallara !

 

By the way, perhaps it is good to mention that the first picture displays LaFerrari carbon tub and the other F80 chassis.

Based on images I have seen so far, F80 indeed has slightly longer aluminum sections lower down in the chassis at both ends, but then again, the difference is not significant. F80 seems to have a lot more advanced chassis generally, especially with the extended carbon frame above the engine.

 

Compared with Laferrari’s one ?
Was the later a in-house production ?

 

All were outsorced to Dallara or whatever.

 

There is no in-house production of carbon fiber for road cars, whatever they are.

 

Why is she climbing all over it ...... It's a wonderful part of our history..

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yessir

 

Will email you. Would be nice to finally meet in person!

 

1. I agree but this is ultimately a cost problem too. To change the pickup points with metal subframe just change the welds vs modifying the 500kg metal mold with carbon. I also doubt they will change the pickup points for the XX version.
2. If there was a packaging advantage you would see metal front subframes in F1 and LMP. With metal the geometry of the part and stiffness are interrelated whereas with composites they are independent so you can have weird aerodynamic shapes that are still stiff.
3. Previous cars with carbon rear subframes like CGT, Veyron/Chiron, 918 have proven that the heat problem can be solved.
4. Again this is more of a cost issue. The problem with carbon crash structures is that it is very hard to predict the crash behavior of composites so R&D cost is high. F1 teams still regularly fail the frontal and side crash tests for homologation and have to redo them. The Valkyrie failed the frontal crash tests and they probably ran out of money to properly re engineer it so it is only show and display in the US.
5. Valid point but again not sure how relevant this should be for a $5 million halo car.
6. Maybe.
7. I will add another. Production speed/expense. You can’t screw directly into composites and need to embed inserts into the tub. This takes time and adds steps to the layup schedule/curing of the tub. Vs with metal you just bolt the frame to the front of the tub. For the production run of 799 and the timeline of delivery of~ 2 yrs you would probably need multiple sets of molds, which adds cost.

My initial comment was in response to Ferrari supposedly not cheaping out on the F80. While the car overall is very advanced it is clear they cut some corners on the chassis in favor of costs. Those cut corners will likely not affect the overall performance/experience but the product is no longer plus ultra.

Also another point of comparison. Does the 499p front subframe look more similar to the LaF or F80?
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When these pictures were released and given that she appeared in all of them, there were those who believed that the lady was an accessory that came with the car.

 

Hot, very hot. The girl is cute too.

These pics are in a great Rainer Schegelmich book about 70s weird concept cars, my favourite subject in car design. The same girl in extravagant costumes appears with other cars.

 

She's now 81 years and slightly patinated.
Meguiars may help.

Marcel Massini

 

Yes, I would make it, cause the HALO car would be much better and thus, it would increase brand value.