F12 or 812?

Factually not accurate. The F8 was a bridge design to the V6 and by the same designer of both. F12 was a huge leap over 599 and the evolution of the 599GTO and penned as the last PF. Nothing is similar between the F12 and F8.

 

The similarity was not between the F12 and F8, but between the 812 and F8, which are both limited evolutions of the previous models (respectively the F12 and 488). Still, similar does not mean the exact same, so that it will always be possible to find discrepancies.

 

The f8 is the run on sentence to to the 458 chassis. 458 then 488... Life extension to f8nbut only for 3 years to bridge.

I suspect the 12 cylinder will be the same f12 812... Short run of 12cilindiri to bridge the gap... That's why they released the convertible at the same time as the coupe. In my guess there will only be a 3 year run or so of the car maybe 4 max not the typical 5 to 6

 

I was wondering why they deviated and released conv at same time. Maybe to spike interest in car if focus groups didn’t respond well to the design ?

 

It's an interesting thought.

Here is my guess.

They can/need to stretch the chassis and available resources out. They don't need to reinvent the wheel as the car is so far ahead of any other competitor... There is almost no competition honestly. So why totally develop a new platform.


Now... What I think the real reason is...

Emissions and sound regulations.

This game can't continue. There is likely some regulations to be implemented shortly that will gut the v12 program. They know it can't continue in this manner so they have had to shorten the lifespan of this model run and condense it to offer both cars.
I think if it were strictly the coupe design to blame... They would simply allow the back portion of the car to be painted body color.

The designer will not win when contested by the bean counters and the board of directors on a publicly traded company.

They will just use a different color... Than change their model

 

For me, the F12 is a simpler, more classic design, whereas the 812 is slightly more modern and much more muscular design. So it comes down to personal preference. I think the 812 will turn more heads, interior and rear end is much nicer, as is tech. 812 will continue to be more valuable than F12, especially now with the horrendous Cylindri.

 

Time for a 12cilindri? ☺️

 

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I just want to say thanks to everyone in this thread. I have finally picked up my first F car! The only thing I will immediately change are the wheels to HRE P101s.

 

what did you get?

 

Found a 1-owner F12 and jumped immediately on it.

 

Congrats! Photos?

 

great car! can't wait for pics

 

Sorry. Thought photos were posted earlier, but the album was private.

 

Beautiful spec. And agree on the wheel change. Well bought, and congrats!

 

In all these comparisons over the years it seems somewhat apparent that Ferrari left themselves somewhere to improve on setup and suspension with the F12. Or maybe just didn’t spend enough time dialing in the first model.
But I wonder why I never see it mentioned, that for less than the price difference between the two, you could probably do a novitec or similar suspension set up on an F12, and maybe end up with something better than the 812.

 

Aftermarket suspension setup with Novitec springs was discussed briefly earlier in this thread. I believe there is also another thread where it is discussed in more detail and the proponents speak very highly of the improvement. I live in FL where the only "twistys" are highway on-off ramps, so the juice isn't worth the squeeze.

I think bringing the F12's predecessor into the picture adds some perspective. I haven't driven the 599GTB but the consensus is that the F12 was a significant leap forward in all aspects (power, suspension, handling, design, etc).

 

I love the 599 too. I like the unique design. But I think the overall consensus was that it was quite a bit more GT oriented than the models before and after.
I have seen quite a few here, particularly in the UK, make the switch back to the F12 from the 812. Maybe because they do have the twisties. The reason is usually something to the effect of an overall more exciting engaging experience/tactile raw feel. If that’s the case, giving it the proper setup it deserves seems like it could be the best of both worlds.

 

My problem with 812SF handling is the way it awkwardly transfers it's substantial weight via the 4WS, which does not inspire confidence and creates an uneasy feel. F12 doesn't have 4WS and thus none of this issue.

 

wow nice!

 

Having owned an F12 and a 812GTS… There’s no comparison in the drive because of the 4 wheel steering in the 812. This improvement makes the car nimble and feel smaller- where the F12 felt large. This advance first showed up in the F12 TDF. I have never heard of anyone knocking the TDF with this major upgrade or stating that they wished the TDF did not have this. Novitec cannot compensate for this. The 812 has a stiffer suspension, is faster and has and upgraded interior without the infamous sticky bits ($14k to properly fix). The 812 is essentially the road car version of the TDF.

I must say I had no interest in upgrading from the F12… until I drove an 812. Both remain great cars.

 

My understanding is that some refinement/advances were made in 4WS from 812SF to 812GTS. As you have a GTS, it's not surprising to hear you don't encounter said awkwardness. F12tdf does not have it either, perhaps due to lighter weight than 812SF, and/or due to suspension settings being different.

 

No one questions the F12tdf's place in automotive excellence and value. But recall several professional reviewers did not favor the 4ws and commented on it not providing the predictability they expected. Chris Harris comes to mind. This feature was considerably changed in subsequent iterations. I like cars that are unpredictable at first. You tend to love the attempt at mastering the machine instead of just mashing the go pedal and it does the rest.

 

IMHO the F12b suspension could come completely undone over roads with repeating medium frequency bumps. The back end just would no longer be planted very well, limiting progress at speeds over about 65 MPH. It was not something pleasant, but neither a deal breaker for me since I dont have a ton of those roads. My roads are just full of super high frequency repeating small little cracks and breaks. TDF was MUCH better in this regard, a really fun car to drive up to about 7 or 8 /10ths. The problem was in going beyond it, the rear steer would sometimes behave in a way where the car was not that easy to predict. Some people will like this behavior and say it’s “wild” and “crazy”! Looking over at the edge of the road as I am ripping up and down mountain passes with no guard rails, I found the car saying “watch it pal”. It scared me a bit. Didn’t give me the confidence about continuing to push- which I didn’t like- but also could simply be my recognizing my own limitations. But overall, I think the TDF is the greatest! Btw, the TDF has the nicest ride quality out of all these cars, though the 812 GTS is a close second. 812 SF I think was victimized a bit by being heavier, compensated via what felt to me as stiffer springs, and the new at the time electric power steering. I think the RWS was better than the TDF but still a little weird behavior at times. There was just something weird about the lower speed tight turn handling. Didn’t love that. Most of us car guys say make the suspension stiff and make everything super aggressive! Superlight weight, Yeah! Thats the way to get where we need to be! But with the 812 GTS it seems to me they relaxed the suspension a bit, so the ride quality is nice, relaxed the rear steer a touch, refined the power steering, and you now have a package that when you are motoring along in normal traffic is just simply lovely, and if you want too hooligan it around turns, will do it faithfully, for me the car is one of those shrinks around you, and most importantly can be trusted when doing it. And you can put the roof down or back up at the touch of a button while you are on the move. A sublime experience. Its not fair to really put the TDF in with the production cars, but I put it here for driving experience comparison. The Comp is kind of like a plus plus plus version of the 812 GTS. The independent rear steer really pays dividends the car feels more natural still and is a super thrilling drive, and a much more faithful and trustworthy partner than the TDF. The engine is thrilling and the sound is great. Really a great great car, but more refined than the TDF and thus, despite some of the things I found a little scary about the TDF, for the time you want something that demands your full attention, something you know is edgy, and something that will engage (almost all!) your senses, the TDF is The One.

 

I’ve had both. The SF is much more adept. I can track it easily where the F12 was a bit scary.