Has Ferrari Lost It's Luster?

Can somebody provide rationale as to how this could equate to Ferrari luster vs a fashion statement for ultra wealthy non-car people?

https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/3d0facc4-2238-43d0-be5f-31228e7191eb/?aff=atempest&utm_campaign=atempest&utm_source=autotempest&utm_medium=trp&utm_campaign_id=1&utm_trusted=TRUE

 

It is like you said, a fashion statement for non car people. A way to one up the guy with the Urus or Cullinan.

I believe the resale value will show the true long term desirability of these cars, once the hype dies down in 5-10 years these will be less than $100k on the second hand market and nobody will want them.

I personally wouldn't pay $200k for one let alone $700k, that is hilarious.

 

I believe that far more influential than that are the requirements imposed by governments and insurance companies. Consider the restraints put on designers by safety regulations and fleet fuel economy and emissions mandates. The very shapes of cars are proscribed by aerodynamic shapes and surface features designed specifically to squeeze out the last 1/10mpg. Remember those aircraft silhouette spotters’ books? If there were a similar book of today’s automobiles I’ll bet not 10% of the members of this forum could identify even 10% of the cars, so defined is their design by surface contours and scoops, vents, textures, etc., none of which is visible in a blacked-out silhouette format. Today’s designers are handcuffed by regulations. They’ll soon be replaced, I fear, as obsolete by AI.

 

I bet it won't. Not unless they paint the black bits.

Perhaps good design can shock at first, but it certainly doesn't need to. Plenty of great designs - including countless great Ferraris - are admired immediately and indefinitely.

On the other hand, I can think of zero designs that I thoroughly disliked at first, then grew to love.

Your list includes some of my least favorite artists. I think the emphasis on novelty in artistic circles today is a problem, not a virtue. So often it comes at the expense of quality. I'll take Paul Bocuse over Grant Achatz any day.

 

Well said. You are accurately describing the difference between PF and Manzoni. Why someone with so little ability to design something cohesive is at the top of Ferrari just amazes me. At some point this will become obvious and a change for the better will be made. Just draw a curvy sexy line and stop adding disjointed crap to it like Orange County Choppers.

 

How to design a modern sports car in two simple steps:
1) Give crayons to a group of 9 year old boys
2) "Whoever can draw the fastest car wins!"

 

The problem (from a design point of view) is that the cars are supposed to be both sexy AND the fastest ever around Fiorano (or that German track). The latter element requires wings and widgets and add-ons that destroy the former. The only way back out of this mess is to say "the cars are fast enough" and make them pretty. Unfortunately, no new Ferrari owner wants to hear that his car is slower and less powerful than the last model.

 

There are many of us who would take that trade off. Make a 2900lb, stick, NA screamer to 9k rpm and it’s done.
Aston is talking about going this route in part.

 

After all these interesting replies I just think that to make magnificent cars you simply need 3 ingredients:
1) Freedom of mind and of hand - do not feel obliged to make the fastest and to follow the fashions of the new riches bad tastes.
2) Untamed passion for cars and the will to make something that will get a place into automobile books and museums of the future.
3) Actually you don’t need a 3rd ingredient.

The only guy that today still does this way is probably Horacio, while all the others either do not have freedom because sentinels of the stockholders or do not have enough passion and inspiration, so end up copying from the past or putting together bizarre designs for the sake of shocking.

I totally dislike the F80
I quite dislike the 12 Cylinder
I do not wish a Roma
I can do without a SF90
The 296 reminds me a mix between the 250 LM and a slipper
The Purosangue makes me nervous
I am scared by the SP3

(no intention to offend the owners of any of these!)

In the price range I’d certainly get anything until the ‘90s between a 365 BB, 550 Barchetta, and a F40/50.

Bye,
Nic

 

Beat me to it.
I got the last of the Twin Turbo V8, there will be no more. And although it’s the fastest AMG I’ve owned the model before that I had was more fun to drive. And the model before that even slower yet somehow still better, and more special.

Every manufacturer every year adds a few pounds bloat and doohickeys and tech and here we are. Worse cars to drive and look at, so then they just crank up the boost to make it “better”.

First car that can fly wins.

 

aston went that way. they make the best looking front engine cars these days - and they dont care if ferrari is faster.

 

i think they will decline in value.....however, that v12 is the best na v12 ever designed by ferrari so it might find use in other vehicles eventually

 

I kinda see your point, but i can only agree partially: it is posssible to build a car with relatively clean lines that is stupid fast.
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Like stated previous, they will soon become obsolete. When one of a kind parts are no longer made or become obsolete - then what? Seems some of the older common Ferraris are worth a couple of time more than a new Ferrari that tells you something about long term ownership or investment!

 

And on older Ferraris you can copy and make obsolete physical parts. On newer stuff the electronics, sensors, chips, screens, one day will be gone. Then what?

 

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Maybe its not the car so much, as the drivers who have lost their luster?

 

Or everything will have an LS Swap lol

 

Wow, spent the last hour reading this thread. Now after two double espressos to pick me up I have energy to add to this dreaded thread.
The problem IMHO is society, not Ferrari, as the root problem. Most people today want the newest unobtainable, cost be damned, only to throw it away. They Think rent, don’t buy(great for those who buy later in the depreciation curve) ; think science(often pseudo) over sanity; government regulations over moral obligations. Ferrari may be a rich company but is still very small and subject to costly errors- I’m sure those childish welds on the “aluminum space frame” will significantly affect integrity in a crash but I’m not an engineer. Ferrari engineers and designers didn’t have the luxury of a deep bench like MB, BMW, VW(Bentley, Lambo, Porsche etc) but Ferrari occasionally hit grand slams which were so outrageously good we lovers of the brand overlooked the bad paint,buttons and other goofy crap.
MB,VW and their ilk usually do things by committee and that makes them go conservative- go for the single or double or base on balls. As they bought up Lambo and Porsche the go conservative ethos has filtered down to these luxury sports car brands and it shows.
I’m sure Ferrari has many committees too, probably more than ever and that is how one ends up with the F80 or 12C. Committees lack vision unless they have a fearless leader who has the vision and the power to implement it. Ferraris CEO is beholden to the board and stockholders and so is somewhat blinded by them. What he must understand is he has the power to recreate the vision.
I think I’ll go for that third espresso now…

 

I'm watching the Daytona 500, and they're talking about the pace car. It's a Chevy Blazer SS, an all electric EV. This SUV will run 0-60 in 3.4 seconds and has the equivalent of 615 HP.

It's a BOX, and it will run with supercars from a decade or so back. Performance alone is a dead end, and Ferrari needs to pivot back to beautiful. When everything is fast enough that they're effectively the same on the streets, you have to differentiate in some other way.

 

Yep since you can still buy a manual Toyota !

 

296 can be had now for under 300k. The direction is clear..

 

Ferrari is without a soul and without design focus.

This statement is not controversial or colored by “old man-ism.”

Disagree? Go buy the $520 Ferrari hat on their website and get in line for the EV.

Want to buy their stock? That’s a different discussion.

 

There was a car show yesterday here in St Petersburg….the Festival of Speed. As a Ferrari guy since the early 70s I tried to name all of the iterations of the 458. The 488 has the mid mounted vents…the Pista has a deep front vent in the hood…..but for the life of me I could not figure out what other version was. I young boy said look at the dashboard. He was right it was an F8 Tributo. Sadly they all look similar. I have a blu Abu Dhabi 458 Spider. It’s okay looking I guess. But compare it to the 330 GTC or the Alfa 8C or the BB512 in my garage the 458 is boring looking. Even my SuperAmerica looks better than the 458 (my opinion).