12C vs 812S ( Cilindri vs Superfast)

Nice write-up
What about:
New chassis which is stiffer than the 812 by 15 -20 percent

lower engine position which lowers the center of gravity

Faster shift times, better ratios and an extra gear.

Lighter pistons, lighter titanium conrods and a lighter crankshaft (Did the 812 have steel or titanium conrods?)

More sophisticated rear wheel steering

Faster than the 812 at Fiorano track

Im sure we will know more as the car arrives in the hands of owners who have an 812 in their garages.

Regulations have muffled and slowed down the ICE cars

 

Have we seen a Fiorano track time for the 12C? If there is one I haven’t seen it publicly

 

. Ferrari CEO says that Ferrari will be carbon neutral by 2030. This means more hybrid and electric vehicles. This one may be the last ICE v12 Ferrari. In my opinion the controls - similar to the Roma are a huge disappointment. The original concept of putting all the controls on the steering wheel was ingenious. The new system is a distraction from the driving experience. Also, in 20 years how will these cars be repaired when these complex components fail and the parts are not available? Do I sound like a horse owner when the first cars stated showing up? Enjoy this car as it may be the last in a long line of V12 GT cars

 

Ferrari will be carbon neutral but china will not, china will contribute 10000000000000000000000 tons of carbon in our atmosphere but hey Ferrari will be all electric. I will buy Honda.....

 

The problem is that there are tree-huggers in Europe who are in control over everything. Just as California emissions have affected the automotive industry for decades. They fail to understand that if we want REAL climate change, it has to happen in places like China, India, and other underdeveloped nations that burn coal, firewood, and garbage for power. Trying to mandate that limited production performance car manufacturers go fully electric is only symbolic as the production fo the batteries causes more climate damage than an ICE Ferrari would over its lifespan. If you do the equation on a traditional vehicle over a lifespan of 100,000 miles or so, the trade-off to go electric reduces emissions slightly. However, on a car like a Ferrari, which may only do 15-25,000 miles in its lifespan, the trade-off if not good. The environmental impact of changing batteries every 8 years on a Ferrari is worse than the gas an ICE version emits.

In retrospect, I think requiring cats on all cars and doing away with leaded gas were great moves, but the electrification of Ferraris and other exotic cars is ridiculous. The only good news will be that the ICE V12 cars will only have greater resale value when you can no longer buy a new one

 

China is building a crazy number of nuclear plants. We should all take note and do the same or we will be jumped over again. Solve the upstream problem and leave the cars alone. As we all know well, electric and hybrid bulilding and sourcing are hardly good for the environment. With that said I do love the utility of the 296 but I am more excited about the upcoming 12 coupe

 

Just an interruption, ferrari uses dry sump correct? Wet sump wouldn't be good.

Also I just stepped into this post for ideas, deciding between 812 and 12cilindri. How do you think about the extra 600 rpm redline though? If it wasn't that, it would easily be 812 for me...

 

Something else you should consider is how much wider the 12 Cilindri is than the 812. Some journalists could not relax in that Ferrari because they were always worried about hitting a curb with those expensive wheels. The 12 Cilindri is more of a 'GT' car now with the 812 being more of a sports car by comparison. Though the 812 would not be confused with a 296 that is more instinctive in it's handling. The old 812 is a bit more loud compared to the new more strict automobile noise standards that the 12 Cilindri must adhere to. A 2019 version 812 without the 'GPF' sounds even better. It all depends on what you value in your Ferrari experience?

 

Of course. Im done with v8s so I wanted a v12 finally. The engine really matters, thats why I did not look at aventador as that v12 aren't as special. Also, they weren't even loud inside the car as opposed to outside, which is strange to me. So the choice is 812, which I heard is a bit scary to drive hard and gives that "excitement" so I wont be missing the fun factor without a mid engine. However, I understand all the cons with the 12cilindri, but I couldn't resist at that 812 competizione derived engine that revs to 9500. I mean, revs does matter, if the gt3 or 458 rev to 7000rpm, it won't be special. Im just afraid that I would get a better experience with the 12cilindri if I put an exhaust on it

 

Less than an inch.

 

Way wide>
2176 mm = 85.66

12 Cilindri 85.6 inches (without mirrors)

812 GTS 77.6

SF90 XX 77.6

SP3 80.7

LENGTHS are in order 186.2 184.8 185.4 184.5

 

Nope, this is the width with mirrors, unlike that quoted for other Ferrari. The 812's width is within an inch of that of the 12 Cilindri.

 

And I thought it was shorter by an inch or so?

 

2 cm shorter wheelbase, but 7 cm longer overall.

 

The width discrepancy continues to confuse. I wish they had not released the measurements in the manner they did.

 

A trio but not from Kingston...

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- Ferrari Belgium

 

Another pair of V12 models.

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Purosangue is 2028 mm (without mirrors) vs 2176 mm for the 12 Cilindri.

 

I have a 12C Spider allocation and own an 812 GTS that i love. Curious if most people with allocations genuinely like the 12C more than the 812 esthetically

 

I lean 12C, but maybe that’s because I have had 5.5 years of combined 812 SF and 812 GTS ownership. I like the freshness of the 12C. That said, I am keeping my 812 GTS and adding 12C Coupe.

 

Have you seen in person? Driven one yet? You’re def a great barometer. Would love your perspective.

 

PuroSangue is wider in that pic. Check out the distance to the parking space lines. 12C width is being misquoted. It is little wider than 812.

 

That is what I thought to about the Purosangue. Maybe it was just that big dinner at the Montana!

 

12 Cilindri is not really wider than 812 Superfast. 12 Cilindri maximum width with mirrors folded is 2006 mm. While this is 35 mm more than in 812 SF, the difference is apparently explained by the chrome bar sticking out of the body behind the front wheel. Width at the front tyres is 14 mm wider though, so the front of the car is slightly wider than before. Width at the rear tyres is exactly the same as before.

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Yes of course dry sump! I should've been really angry-writing to do such mistake.

 

That would require investment, which would dilute short-term earnings, and shareholders would not like it.

Isn't it great being a publicly traded company.