Mystery Vignales...

0162 ED at the factory just prior to the 1952 Mille Miglia

It is a Mailander photo . Here is another:

https://library.revsinstitute.org/ferrari-factory/293683

 

I would not be so sure it was 0162ED. Look the headlight surround. On the four 225 S Vignale spyders at 1952 Giro di Sicilia, only 0154ED had the same…

 

You are right. I labelled that years ago and probably went off the driving lights. I also just noticed that 0162ED had a small chrome strip down the bonnet.

 

Rodolfo Mailander photographed 0154ED and 0141T in factory garage in February 1952. 0154ED went through some mods before entering the Giro in March. Windscreen seems to have been too low, and bonnet was maybe rattling against the carbs, so it was raised a little and a chrome strip was added. Dash was later modified, it seems. Marzotto probably preferred having the instruments in front of his eyes.

 

Back to 0095/S, need to presume some details. Maybe we get to see some pics later.

It seems that nobody has photos of 0095/S to show it after Italian registeration. Therefore I presume that ACI/PRA documents were tracked down through some other documentation and being in whimsical speculative mood I presume this documentation is related to eventual factory service performed in June 1953. Sometime after that (when exactly?) the car was exported but instead of going to USA it remained in Europe. Then disappeared, likely scrapped.

 

Image Unavailable, Please Login I will add : what are the proofs this Vignale coupé at 1951 Turin show was 0095S ?

 

I have absolutely nothing - except barchetta.cc entry, which as stated earlier is seriously confused with 0024M (Vignale rebody).

I have very hard time believing that a 1950 chassis would carry so many late design elements, meanwhile 0103/S looks like a back step from Cornacchia's 0091/S. It is noteworthy that the this coupe was seriously different, for me it is one of their ultimate masterpieces sharing many details with 0080/E also on display in the same motor show, likely hurried to be completed on time for the show. As you most certainly have noticed, from this time onwards, Vignale would carry on evolvement by making a series design studies on 212 chassis, they are all fabulous - more or a less unique in design.

 

Agree these cars are just fabulous.
All this to say that there is no chance the 1951 Turin Show car was 0095S…

 

I find it very unlikely.

 

Next question: do we know WHEN Alfred Ducato received his first Ferrari?

The only confirmed note I have is the one quoted in opening message of this thread: Auto Sport Review of October 1953. It is safe to say that by that time he had had it for a while.

Just wondering *IF* it could be possible that Ducato received it later than we would think, after Corradini had raced it in Allentown (Pennsylvania) on 3/aug/52. Thay would make it easier to fit the events to history file of a single car. Corradini was from West New York (New Jersey) and his ceramic tile business took him to California so he could easily have taken the car across the continent.

Now *IF* Ducato bought a used car, eventually with some damage, it might also explain the quoted comment of Chinetti (quote: When he saw the impeccable care Ducato had lavished on his 2.3 coupe he was impressed." and at the same time it would also explain why the car now looks so different (slightly different nose, totally different front bumper and different type of parking lights).

Anyone?

 

Time to move on: after the inaugural running of Carrera-Panamericana Ferrari recognized the importance of this race, but there was a problem also described in the wiki-article of the 1951 race: "For the first time, a European manufacturer entered a 'factory' team, Ferrari entering several cars including a 212 Export LWB Vignale. Although the Ferrari entries did not technically satisfy the requirements of the touring car category, the Italians were permitted to compete anyway."

It seems that Ferrari first intended to enter with two Ghia Coupes, and they event tested a used car (0049/S) by installing the latest 212 Sperimentale engine into it during the first half of 1951. That's why 0049/S still carries a second chassis stamping "0070/S". There is an odd unconfirmed rumor that Dino crashed a Touring Coupe 0070/S while testing. I think he was not testing a Touring Coupe, but a touring coupe being developed for a touring car race. It seems the project was soon abandoned.

Ferrari figured out that they needed an alloy bodied saloon, a clumsy looking car that would be accepted for the saloon car race. Vignale probably had a look at an Olds 88 sedan that had won the 1950 race and came up with this... The car disappears soon after the factory photos were taken. It was probably crashed during testing and scrapped. Ferrari figured a longer wheelbase is needed so they built two more cars using brand new 212EL-frames - EL standing for Export Lungo.
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Talking about mysterious Vignales and the Carrera Panamericana, what happened to 0171EL?

 

On Monday, 9 July 1990, I inspected 166 MM/53 Coupé Vignale (known as 0244 M) at Dino Cognolato's Carrozzeria Nova Rinascente in Vigonza near Padova, Italy, who restored it for the factory museum. Car was unpainted and less engine, the left front chassis member surprisingly was stamped 0049/S. Not 0244 M.
And no, I was not allowed to take any pix of the number stamped, but allowed only to take pix of the bodywork. But I saw the stamped number 0049/S with my own eyes.
Previously that car (painted French blue) had been for decades in the Monza Museum, together with other Ferraris, all on loan from the factory (starting 10 November 1965). And the factory paperwork for said loan all showed 0049 S, not 0244 M.

Marcel Massini

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Judging by the looks the damaged Ghia Coupe 0049/S was repaired with a new nose around 1955-56. I would not be very surpriced to learn that the engine was temporarily used in some other cars in that time.

 

I am talking about a Vignale Coupé, not Ghia.
And I am talking about a frame (chassis), not an engine.
And I have the factory paperwork for all this.

Marcel Massini

 

You must understand that the stamping 0049/S is in this case related to engine of 0049/S, not the car.

 

No pic showing the "damaged Ghia Coupé" was posted. The statement that Dino crashed 0049 S into a factory wall is not substantiated.
And how do you come to say "Judging by the looks the damaged Ghia Coupe 0049/S was repaired with a new nose around 1955-56"?
To the best of my knowledge and my files the 250 GT-type front clip/nose was added to Ghia Coupé 0049 S in the mid-1960's in USA. The car had been in a fire.
Once again, when I inspected the 166 MM/53 Coupé Vignale at Cognolato's in January 1990, the frame was stamped 0049 S.
And I am still talking about frames, not engines (which can easily be replaced). See post 90.
Interestingly, today nobody wants to hear that the aforementioned VIGNALE Coupé (0244 M) is/was stamped 0049 S.......(post 88).

Marcel Massini

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So you say a mid-60's American craftsman was thinking that let's face lift this 15-year-old car by five years!? Yeah, right! How didn't I come to think of that!?

 

Read post 92.

Marcel Massini

 

No.

 

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Not a mystery Vignale as this car is well known but I didn't notice the Internet Movie Cars Database updated its files with the "Febbre di vivere" film (1953).

 

There is a thread for (non mystery) Vignale bodied Ferraris.

https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/carrozzeria-vignale-ferraris-bodied-by-vignale.225273/page-28

Marcel Massini

 

You are right, sorry !

 

Last photo shows the Abarth 205A also used in the film.

 

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This one ? Oh yes of course ! I was thinking in posting the pic the headliner was strange for a Ferrari !