F80 Reportedly Having Issues Selling

Thankfully it is not a 40 year old relic and is a modern performance monster.

 

Politics of EV, green, CO2, etc moved to the P&R section and thread here:

https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/most-americans-dont-want-electric-cars.648946/

 

sooo, back on topic, if they have issues selling them why there are no allocations one could snap up?? where are these unsold slots??

 

Thanks for splitting the threads, sorry for the diversion.

I think they always have drama around a new model, these will find homes. I am looking forward to the first driving reports. I expect it will be outstanding!

 

Don’t think there is anything unsold. Dealers had to return any allocations that were not taken by clients to the factory. Two dealers I speak to now have clients wanting to buy and no allocation.

 

Same here, I would love to give them a deposit!

 

Those relics are better than any modern supercar.

 

Really? How so? Certainly not in performance terms. You might like them, but the advancement in technology and performance is relentless.

 

“Better” isn’t empirical. Faster is. No doubt modern cars are faster and achieve shorter lap times. If that is all you care about then, yes, modern cars will certainly do that. They’re safer, too, so there’s that. But many are too sanitized, too robotic, too easy. And nearly all of them are missing a pedal. But for some, that doesn’t make them better. I love modern cars for what they are and what they can do, but can absolutely understand that this doesn’t make them a better driving experience.

 

Nominating something as better, in whatever subjective terms one prefers, is highly personal. What one might adore, another person might hate. Better, in quantifiable terms, is objective though. So one cannot say that something (any object that has measurable traits) is better than another one, if that statements is not backed by numbers. In contrast, one might state which one is their personal preference and there can be no arguing about what someone prefers. Unlike art or food though, which are totally subjective, cars have scientifically measurable parameters.

 

I think in terms of lap times the future could be interesting, the future EV bmw M3 is supposedly 1300hp and has ground effect giving it 1200kg of downforce from a standstill, for reference the mcmutry sperling which uses the same tech is 24 seconds a lap faster around Hockenheim than an AMG ONE, and that's with 75% power capped!

 

BMW has said that this car (with the fans) is a technology demonstrator, not destined for production. The production M3 should be quite different in terms of specs.

 

So if I follow your reasoning and its easily demonstrable limits with this example, an Apple watch has more quantifiable and measurable functionality than a Rolex, so it is better...

 

When you put it in that perspective that's actually crazy, 24 seconds faster!!

 

Soon 25% import tax
Will not affect the sale, does it?
Few pennies more.

 

Yes it is better, it does everything a Rolex doesn't do, my last brand new Rolex I bought ran at twice the speed required as soon as I brought it home, damn fast watch LOL
I had to take my 5 figure paperweight back to Rolex and after them trying to figure out for 10 minutes how to pin this on me in the few hours I had it out of the store they relented and sent it in for repairs, called me almost 3 months later to tell me that it is ready to be picked up.

Old tech doesn't mean better, it means nostalgic, perhaps a bit more engaging but that's subjective because some of the things I find engaging others might find boring so yes IMO, this coming from someone obsessed with mechanical watches and a reasonably large collection for their designed purpose between those two apple is definitely the better watch.

It's ok and romantic to cling to the past but do not disparage the future.

 

Old ones are better driver's cars, they deliver way more enjoyment in terms of driving, which is the most important thing and it seems the people running Ferrari atm are clueless about.

 

Wrong. Better is not about numbers.

 

That's not just a Ferrari thing, it's across almost all current cars being produced.

 

IN YOUR OPINION!!! Which might be the polar opposite of someone else's opinion. That is the problem with opinions, facts cannot back them up, and everyone can have one. Modern cars are measurably better though and that is a fact, not an opinion. You are free to have an opinion but you cannot force others to share it, because this is just your subjective taste and nothing more than that.

Of course it is. Actually that it the only way to prove something is actually better! Such a car might not be to your liking (and that is totally respectable, you can like whatever you want), but it is just a better machine than a car with worse engineering/performance numbers, and that is indisputable.

 

I think we are conflating 'better' (objective) with 'desirable' (subjective).

For those that prioritize outright performance, why bother with an F80 when a Rimac Nevera R will likely destroy it in most conditions? The reasons will be largely subjective aka "I find these attributes of the F80 to more desirable".

 

No it isn't.
Better means different things to different people.
better ≠ faster

 

If you can afford one of these, you can afford the tax. Its just going to make the resale value that much higher, which a lot of people are only buying it for that reason.

 

I never said just faster (you can strap a jet engine to a 1970s Corolla and beat just about anything in a straight line), I said being better in terms of engineering values/numbers (which also include performance obviously). It is the only OBJECTIVE way of comparing engineering constructions. When engineers set out to manufacture any vehicle, they set target values they have to achieve. That is how they know their creation is measurably better than a competitive product or than its predecessor.

Take your own definition though and accept that what you like better may not be to other people's liking. Thus you cannot just claim that "they are better", because there must be an objective way to support this claim. What you can say is that YOU like some cars better than others, even though they might have worse engineering parameters. In other words, they are just better for you.

 

I hear you, but the Nevera's Ring lap time was mediocre, which tells us that it is a one trick pony (essentially a drag car).