Repaint and missing books effect on market value

Gents,

I introduced myself few months ago saying I was after a Mondial T but now I am analysing a 328.

I have seen a 1986 328 GTS for sale painted black from factory that happened to be painted rosso corsa by a former owner and that has been recently repainted back to black. Service and guarantee books are also missing and the only documentation available is the repaint job report and invoices and the last two service invoices that included the change of the cambelts.

What impact in % should the repaint and missing books facts have on the market value of the car?

Thank you so much!

 

Was it a bare metal respray? The good news is that it has been returned to its original colour.
Even though the 328 has been deemed the most reliable Ferrari of its era, there's likely some deferred maintenance to address.

Driver's manuals and workshop manuals are available at reasonable costs. I've owned 5 vintage Ferraris and none had the warranty booklet. I don't know if it's required for concours, if that's the route you're considering.

Tool and jack kits are costly to replace.

Most members here will recommend a PPI, since maintenance records are missing.

We need pictures and the asking price. The guys here have amazing eyesight for originality and problematic concerns.

 

Like Larry said above, it depends on a few factors.

Budget $4-5K to replace all books/tools/jack with a nice replacement set.

I doubt the repaint harms the car that much BUT that depends highly on how well it was done, and how accurate to the extent of "OEM" it was done to.

1980's Ferrari paint wasn't winning many awards as it was...So maybe the job now is 75% better than new, but yes, it isn't original anymore, but it wasn't when it was RC either...

What else was done besides the belts? Lots of "while you're in there's" are done when these go through majors, as it makes sense cost wise, and wear wise to tackle them at the same time.

 

Thanks for the answers. Now out on my iPhone. I will upload photos and more info later. Thanks!

 

Here some picks of the repaint job. I know nothing about repainting nor know why there are heating lamps and the paint looks white, then pale black, then shiny black.... In picture 3 and 4 you can see some red spots from the former paint.

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And here the car as it is now. Both interior and exterior look perfect.

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The repaint job was done together with a general restoring work totalizing €19k from official Ferrari dealer.

Then, in 2022, in addition to the timing belt replacement, the invoice from official Ferrari dealer also included the following work:

• Replacement of timing belt bearings
• Replacement of water pump tensioner pulley bearings
• Replacement of the air conditioning belt
• Replacement of the water pump belt
• Replacement of hoses and other minor components
• Oil and filter change
• Air conditioning recharge with R134 refrigerant
• Battery replacement and check
• Verification of fluid levels and pressures
• CO check and adjustment
• Fuel injector cleaning
• Air conditioning filter sanitation

Odometer reading, compatible with TUV records shows 80.000kms. Asking price is €95k. Should I be aiming at a more reasonable €80k mark?

Thanks

 

80,000kms = 50,000 miles
€80,000. -> €95,000 = $86 -> $100,000 USD
Currently, 328 prices are averaging north of 100k USD

I'm surprised that the shop didn't mask around the red and sprayed in black after the fact.

Black over tan is a great look.

 

Unless a car's original paint is in immaculate condition with zero defects, I think a high-quality respray in the original color is plus, not a negative. Old cars accumulate nicks, scratches, and rust, and as mentioned earlier, the factory paint wasn't great, so having a good shop do a good job (taken to bare metal, etc.) will make the body literally better than new. Of course preservationist will disagree, but these cars aren't so rare that original paint should be valuable.

However, original documents and maintenance records are a must, and not having any is a significant detraction.

 

Thanks ZikZak,

Paint look is awesome and the car has driven from the repaint job only 3.000km (and 8 years).

With regards to the documents, current owner bought an aftermaket service book and had it stamped in the last two services done (2016 and 2022 by Ferrari Official Dealer). These two services invoices are also available, plus another small one. Prior to this, there is no further documentation avaiable, nor track record of former owners, etc...

 

Welcome to the 308/328 Forum, lots of great advice so far.
Unfortunately, there are too many other variables involved for such a hard and fast rule to apply.
For me, a respray is like an engine overhaul: if a car is being used regularly and not sitting in a warehouse 90% of the time, eventually both will need to be performed...especially when talking about a 40+ year-old Italian car. If I had to guess, I'd say the majority of Ferraris older than 50 years have been repainted. Both mine are short of that milestone yet both have been repainted.
As far as service records go, they're certainly nice to have but I wouldn't let their absence prevent me from considering a car. A thorough review of the car by a technician familiar with 328s can provide you with the car's actual current condition and might even uncover the fact that work claimed to be performed was in fact not performed, or that sub-standard work was performed; something a receipt would never show.
Regarding value, that's going to be up to you. Nobody wants to overpay for a car and recent BAT results suggest US $86k for a driver with 80k kilometers and little in the way of service records is not out of line.
Again, just my opinion; others will obviously have different thoughts. Good luck if you choose to pursue it.....and the car looks gorgeous btw.
- Dave

 

@fts_bcn

I don't think we can determine impact in % for each element and to my opinion the story and history service of the car is important for the valuation.

-Did the paint job was done by the Ferrari dealer ? A detail surprises me in the photos
-How do you ( the seller ? ) know that the car was originaly black if the early story is unknow ?
-The car is for sale in Spain ?

 

Hi Bertrand,

The paint job was invoiced by the official Ferrari Dealer and a lot of the pictures of the process (i included just a hanfull) show Ferrari dressed employees. However, it might have been done in another place, but for sure, under the supervision of the Ferrari dealer. Again, the invoice, together with other restoring jobs in the car shows €19k (VAT inlcuded).

One of the few documents available is an internal Ferrari report with manufacturing details of the car and it shows the black paint -NERO CARB MET 901/ (BLACK MET)- and tan interior -CASTORO 172 (LIGHT BROWN)-

The car is not actually for sale. It belongs to a friend of a friend that is listening to proposals. He said thought, they should be around €95k.

Thanks to all for your insights.

 

@fts_bcn
If it's a close and trusted friend, makes it easy to enter in a transaction, but if it's an "acquaintance-friend" and you love the car, I would start with an offer thousands less. ChevyDave is spot on with BAT USA prices... but this (to me) is a more beautiful Euro-delivery car (almost worth it for the Vitaloni Turbo mirrors alone!).

I've had to collect up OEM books and pouches for my cars over the years, nothing new there. Expect darn factory warranty manual, too elusive.

Also, price obviously depends on what you want to do with it, park it, drive it, detail and resell next week.... just depends.

 

Just small detal but I notice with the photo two Pininfarina badge on each side of the car but originally there is only one on the driver's side.

"Castoro 172" should the carpeting color, interior color ( seats and storm-door ) should be "Beige 3218" color code

 

Thank you Bertrand,

Interesting that the Pininfarina badge has been installed twice…. By an official Ferrari dealer!

With regards to the seats color, I made a mistake. It shows the code 364013218 but no there is no description alongside.

 

328 prices are barely over the original selling price.

From picture 2 was the paint due to the accident?

 

Hola Sergio,

What accident are you referring to? There is no record of any accident. Just a paint job to recover the original color (car originally black, painted red by a previous owner, and repainted back to black by current owner).

 

[QUOTE="

With regards to the seats color, I made a mistake. It shows the code 364013218 but no there is no description alongside.[/QUOTE]


36401 3218 is the "part number" and this corresponds to Beige 3218

 

Missing books/maintenance info DOES have an effect on selling price BUT it has NO effect on the car per se. IOW, if a road test/inspection of the car in its present state is positive, that's all that matters. Having the original tool kit and manual is nice from a preservation viewpoint/max resale value but the factory toolkit sucks as does the manual. You can buy better tools from a local hardware store for essentially no money compared to trying to find an original toolkit and the manuals are available on-line.

IOW, if you are buying it to drive regularly, evaluate it with that aspect in mind; if for concours, well, it's pretty much a non-starter already...

 

It's hard to find a shop that will do a thorough enough inspection to tell you the true condition of the car, and even then they are limited in what they can inspect. For example, when I bought my car, the maintenance records showed that the transmission had been rebuilt within the prior three years, something which - in absence of those receipts - I would have never known without actually taking apart the transmission.

Complete due diligence prior to purchase would involve both a PPI by a trusted, competent, impartial shop, and records going back at least several years. If the records aren't complete, there should be a discount.

 

Thanks everyone for your inputs.

The truth is, the car is fantastic, with excellent paint quality and an interior in perfect condition.

The recent invoices confirm that the owner hasn’t spared any expenses since he bought it 10 years ago. As for the period before that, it's a bit of a mystery—especially since it was repainted black. Could it have been due to an accident?

This definitely needs to be verified through a PPI. Then, another downside is the absence of the books. I just can’t understand how a car’s books could go missing unless someone wanted to hide something. A careless owner would never take them out of the car, and a careful one would make sure not to lose them. In what situation could the books be lost? Very strange.

 

I don't find it all strange that "books are lost" over 30-50 years. I have most of the original owners manuals and related documentation from new cars I have purchased (I removed them from the glovebox the day the car came home with me), mostly because those cars were traded in on something else and the dealer didn't seem to care if the documentation was in the car. Some day my daughter will offer all of these manuals and documents on eBay or whatever, or maybe they just go in the trash. When 308's were new(er) I would conjecture that most owners treated these cars much like I treat a new car purchase-it's just a car, and original documents aren't that interesting to most folks.

 

You have 10 years' worth of records? That's actually pretty ok.

From the photos, the car looks very nice.

 

A very quick look at mobile.de suggest many cars asking more in Germany - some less (EUR 80 up) so your price is fair but hardly mate's rates - as noted above the books are nice but not critical in any way - download a pdf of the owners manual & decide for yourself if you need a real one for a couple of hundred EUR - as you have read above some markets think buying a car with original everything (especially Italian air in the tires) is the only route - other markets still believe cars are or driving