the F40 is undervalued

I thought the older series 87-88 to be the most valuable but whatever, I think that once it breaches a certain price threshold, let’s say it’s the $4 mil mark, I think it will be a turning point in its value to the market and will begin its path to unobtainium.

 

BRILLIANT!!

 

Total production 1300+ . . .

 

this, there's so many availible at all times throughout the year and no one ever drives them/they are so well preserved that I just can't see them going ultra expensive

 

I agree they made so many of these, there are always lots of nice F40's for sale, don't get me wrong I would love these to move up more but I feel the most they will get to is 5 million USD for the best examples. There are a couple of cars that have traded in the 4's recently, a Plexi glass model that I am aware of. Does make the F50 and others look incredible value now based on where the F40 seems to be heading.

 

Time will tell….

 

One could argue that with a production of 1300 they’re already ultra expensive. Outside of owners who wish their values higher it seems hard to believe the market isn’t at its top (future adjusted for inflation excluded) already.

 

There has been for quiet some time now a store of wealth against inflation and current outlooks for currencies over the long term, just look a gold, THJ just sold a 500 million GBP car collection to one buyer.. there is so much liquid cash all fighting over the same assets.. The recent sale of the 917 Porsche for circa 25 million, the RUF porsche yesterday for 6 million .. values could be just warming up.. interesting times we are living through at present. very few grade A examples for sale and many more buyers.

 

I say this with a ton of disclaimers for protection like, this is just my opinion, etc…. But… for whatever it’s worth… I think for gen X and forward the F40 occupies the same mental plane as the 250 GTO did for the prior generations.

Also yes, they made 1300+ of them, but how many of them are out there that are truly top level to own? I suspect that number is far far lower. I would take a little bit of a guess that finding a top condition F40 is probably about on par with finding a top condition LaFerrari or maybe Enzo. Maybe even F50? I think the production number on F40 can be a little misleading. There are always F40s out there, but try finding a really good one. Its not impossible, but neither is it super easy.

 

As someone that did exactly as you said, and bought the F40 first, it was only after I bought her that I realised it was not the car I really wanted, so I bought a 288 GTO, I love both cars but for me the 288 is something that is very special, not just that they made only 272 but its the car that started the whole process that we see now. If you think it's hard finding a great F40.. the 288 is very hard, that's why we have a car now at Ferrari being restored.

 

No Sale

 

The addressable market is growing.
India/China/saudi. As said above , it is the must have car. All the other stuff we know and talk about adnauseum, that is obvious and known of course contribute to and are the basis for the legend and therefore current and stuttered stratospheric value. it’s the growing addressable market as I stated above that will fill the gap and cause it to grow to unobtainable status

 

I’m not a Ferrari collector valuation expert and it’s just us guys pontificating but still, the recent Piloti sale as an example already set a precedent far beyond this #. There seems to be a lot of sensitivity around this discussion but it’s fair game. The value speculation of this incredible ICON is a worthy topic. I’ve had posters of them on my wall when I was a kid. The GT40 and all the great ones. F40 will touch the Vaulted values seen in the ultra exclusive is plausible

 

Isn’t that all the money? I think it should have sold, I wasn’t in the room but maybe there was some chandelier bidding. Now on the website asking $3.75m, is that a pre-commission price?

 

Sorry what is the piloti sale “precedent”, is it the one that just sold for $808k? I think they are nothing special, I had one, it’s a standard pista coupe with an ugly paint job, couldn’t wait to sell mine.

 

I watched the auction online. Auctioneer opened with $2.5 asked and immediately received the bid; asked 3.0 and got the bid; same with 3.5; then nothing.
Looked bogus to me. She ain’t no Charlie Ross.

 

You have a great collection, I am surprised that you would buy a car that you didn’t like. The fact that those Piloti (Pistas with a paint job) as you put it are trading at around $1 mil these days further illustrates my point. The Halo cars are special, it has been said here prob a hundred times over the years, F40 being likely the most desired of all of them and sooner or later, they’re going to go stratospheric.
Back to the topic at hand, obviously I’m speaking of the Pilot LM. Sold for in excess of $5m USD
It’s precedent setting. And therefore setting the tone.

thanks… pass the ammo

 

No disrespect, but conflating values of a 1:1300 production car with a 1:19 purpose built race car that has an iconic livery is ridiculous. If anything, it underscores how over valued the street cars are.

 

Thanks Joe. Your challenge collection is immaculate and I hope that you are doing well on the sales of the ones you are selling.

Who would have ever thought the Dino to hit a 1/2 mil valuation? Not so long ago they could be had $30-40K. Lusso-275 even the mighty 250 GTO at various times could be had for what seems now to be a pittance. Suggest a GTO to hit $38 mil (probably more in private transactions) in 1978, people understandably would tell you to go see a doctor. To me it’s perplexing that F40 isn’t already unobtainium.
Among the factors is the addressable market and that is growing. In the past market pool between Europe and the US of approximately 600-800 million you now have China/India and other developing countries that add around 3 Billion people to the pool with a growing middle and wealth class.
As with everything else, F40 is worth what the market will pay. 40 and 50k mile examples are in the $2.5- 3 asking range. Not so long ago, Imagine the lambasting some one would take here by merely suggesting an F40 to be worth $2.5 with those miles clocked.
Most recently, A car with I guess tarnished ownership history but still a good example was bid to (and no sale) at $3.5. What is one of the first batch of 0 mile non cat non adjust (7) cars worth? Surely they would breach current public numbers. Perhaps Joe S could chime in on some off market thresholds. No doubt those numbers if made public would drive the market to its rightful place.

When it’s time, these cars will see the values that they deserve

 

A few factors you are maybe not taking into account when you are talking about the addressable market is that a vast majority of people on the planet could care less about cars. Many of the young today, don’t own cars or don’t even know how to drive. It’s hard for us car guys and gals to comprehend but that’s the reality. I have met and know many rich people that like art etc and again they have no interest in cars.

Of the people that do like cars you then have to find the intersection of the people that can afford a car like an F40 and want a vintage experience, which the F40 certainly is now, compared to the modern rockets produced by Ferrari and McLaren and at least 10 other brands. The F40 also comes with extremely high maintenance costs and ever increasing difficulty in finding parts. There is even a thread here for F40 owners that can’t even find tires for F40s, not that many people can be bothered with these costs and maintenance issues. These costs are without factoring in the opportunity cost of the money tied up in the car, which just in bonds goes in to the hundreds of thousands of dollars every year.

You are also making comparisons to 250GTo, the most extraordinary and iconic racecar in the history of the brand which was made in small numbers and even these are looking for homes, Marcel can correct me but I think there are at least 6 on the market currently.

Lastly there is the issue of the cratering values of the new Ferrari cars (and sports cars in general) which is leaving a bad taste in everyone’s mouth and isn’t helping the brand. There seems to be the possibility of a path where the Ferrari business model which has enjoyed so much success over the last two decades may well be unravelling.

For everyone here that owns F40s I hope the values go to the moon, but I am trying to provide some balance to the argument that you are making. I think the very best F40s being in the $3m - $4m range is more likely to be a generational high rather than a level from which they will become “stratospheric”.

 

One question that comes to mind is if the percentage of today’s youth that is really into cars is much different than in the past? And my own observation is it seems not much different than in the past.

Perhaps the best way to think about values on a car like the F40 is to ask if there are about 1000 people on the planet who meet the above criteria.

 

Well we know there are 1,311 that do and there are surely countless other thousands that also do, but they will not be willing to buy at any price. Every time there is a higher value printed the pool gets smaller. As any person acquainted with the collectible car market will tell you, the market gets thin once you get into the 7 figures and every $250k increment thereafter makes a difference. How many cars are there on the planet worth over $4m? Maybe someone has done the math but surely it’s numbered in the single digit thousands and that’s with a global population exceeding 8 billion!