360 - My turn for the heat exchanger failure | FerrariChat
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360 My turn for the heat exchanger failure

Discussion in '360/430' started by mfennell70, Mar 19, 2025.

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  1. mfennell70

    mfennell70 Formula Junior

    Nov 3, 2003
    619
    Middletown, NJ
    #1 mfennell70, Mar 19, 2025
    Finally failed after 14+ years of ownership. I started getting crunches going into 3rd a week ago. It was OK with double clutching and I was wondering how much a rebuild would cost. Then the temp gauge started fluctuating quite a bit one evening. Checked coolant - low. Adding brought up some drops of oil.

    Oh, right. Best guess, I drove it about 50 easy miles after it started leaking.

    Since AW Italian is 1.2 miles from my office, I guess that's where I'll pick a new one up. My intake gaskets are original so I'm going to pull it for the replacement. Car is on the lift waiting my attention.

    My daily VW has a bunch of 60k mile maintenance needs plus needs a waterpump but I punted and dropped it at my friend's shop so I can concentrate on the Ferrari. And my Ducati track bike. And my Aprilia RS250 track bike. :) It pains me to pay for stuff for things I can do myself but there's only so much time.
     
  2. flash32

    flash32 F1 Veteran

    Aug 22, 2008
    6,979
    Central NJ
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    Dominick
    #2 flash32, Mar 19, 2025
    Sorry to hear ...I know what you mean about not enough time to tend to all the toys and regular stuff

    If you need a hand ..I am not far ...

    Give me a shout on pm if you want
     
    Michael B, mvaldezf60, LorenzoR and 4 others like this.
  3. Mel Spillman

    Mel Spillman Formula Junior
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    Nov 3, 2012
    728
    Sugar Land, Tx
    #3 Mel Spillman, Mar 19, 2025
    This is a normal Flash 32 (Dominck) response! "If you need a hand, I'm not far" This man has helped me sooooo much in the past few weeks and I can't thank him enough. We are ALL blessed to have him on this forum!! Thank you , Dominick!!
     
    mvaldezf60, mfennell70, Jaymac and 4 others like this.
  4. jdlegg

    jdlegg Formula Junior

    Dec 22, 2009
    253
    San Rafael, CA
    Full Name:
    James D
    #4 jdlegg, Mar 19, 2025
    Feel for you. Mine failed in the driveway at home right after washing the car. It took 6 weeks to get the exchanger from Italy (slow boat? row boat?) + 13 (THIRTEEN!!!) fluid flushes to clean out the coolant system and gearbox. Best of luck w/yours!
     
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  5. mfennell70

    mfennell70 Formula Junior

    Nov 3, 2003
    619
    Middletown, NJ
    #5 mfennell70, Mar 21, 2025
    Thanks! My friend JohnA mentioned that you were a lot of help with his 430.
     
  6. mfennell70

    mfennell70 Formula Junior

    Nov 3, 2003
    619
    Middletown, NJ
    #6 mfennell70, Mar 21, 2025
  7. flash32

    flash32 F1 Veteran

    Aug 22, 2008
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    Dominick
    #7 flash32, Mar 21, 2025
    We have a mutual friend .. small world

    John is a great guy
     
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  8. flash32

    flash32 F1 Veteran

    Aug 22, 2008
    6,979
    Central NJ
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    Dominick
    #8 flash32, Mar 21, 2025
    What is your plan in terms of flushing it
     
  9. yelcab

    yelcab F1 World Champ
    Consultant

    Nov 29, 2001
    13,621
    San Carlos, CA
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    Mitchell Le
    #9 yelcab, Mar 21, 2025
    Is it a spider? It's a bit of a job for a spider.
     
  10. mfennell70

    mfennell70 Formula Junior

    Nov 3, 2003
    619
    Middletown, NJ
    #10 mfennell70, Mar 24, 2025
    I have no plan yet. :) Many oil changes with cheap 75w90? On the coolant side, my fingers are crossed that it's not too bad. I haven't drained it yet.

    This is what came out of the transaxle:

    Image Unavailable, Please Login

    This will go slowly. I pulled the side panels and airbox this morning.

    I'll probably do the trans mount while I'm in there.
     
  11. mfennell70

    mfennell70 Formula Junior

    Nov 3, 2003
    619
    Middletown, NJ
    #11 mfennell70, Mar 24, 2025
    Fortunately, it's not! I skimmed through the service manual this morning. In sterile manual-speak, it sounds pretty straightforward.
     
  12. flash32

    flash32 F1 Veteran

    Aug 22, 2008
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    Dominick
    #12 flash32, Mar 24, 2025
    I haven't looked into it but I thought shops use ATF for a quick clean - not on the road just a few minutes on lift in gear
     
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  13. mfennell70

    mfennell70 Formula Junior

    Nov 3, 2003
    619
    Middletown, NJ
    #13 mfennell70, May 22, 2025
    Gradually working on this. I'm slow-like-glacier and have other vehicles with needs. Prepping two track bikes.

    Anyway, I think I just have a few more bits to remove to get the intake off. Nuts are all off. I have all the parts.

    I picked up a new trans mount but I can't see anything wrong with the existing one.

    My foreign car mechanic friend suggested flushing the cooling system by running water mixed with simple green. I think I might use the aircraft variant.

    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  14. mfennell70

    mfennell70 Formula Junior

    Nov 3, 2003
    619
    Middletown, NJ
    #14 mfennell70, May 28, 2025
    A friend stopped by this afternoon and helped me yank the intake.

    Coincidentally, a youtuber posted a video of removing his intake which was useful for reference even if I did a few things differently.




    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
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  15. EastMemphis

    EastMemphis Formula 3
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    May 25, 2019
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    #15 EastMemphis, May 28, 2025
    Once you get your HE out, flush out the coolant side and look down the tubes. Are they shiny or corroded? A few will be blocked with oil and crud but most should probably be clear.

    If the tubes are shiny inside, then the corrosion and failure happened from the transaxle side. If the tubes are corroded, then it's likely the problem originated with the coolant.

    The one example I have shows shiny tubes on the coolant side. The transaxle oil likely was the cause of the failure because it wasn't yellow metal safe.
     
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  16. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 29, 2004
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    #16 Rifledriver, May 29, 2025
    Flushing the trans is easy and does not take long. I use whatever is cheap, often motor oil. Its just being run on a hoist to circulate it. 3, maybe 4 flushes is all it takes. I learned the hard way on the cooling system. Oil obviously floats on water. When it is drained oil sticks and coats things internally when the water level drops and does not really drain out. Even detergents to break up the oil doesn't seem to work. I started to just run it until warm and suck everything I could out the top. Keep doing that and it will clear up. Seems for me to be a faster way to go about it. You can even drive it some at this stage and when it finally shows clean after a few inspections/heat cycles you can refill with coolant.
     
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  17. mfennell70

    mfennell70 Formula Junior

    Nov 3, 2003
    619
    Middletown, NJ
    #17 mfennell70, May 29, 2025
    Thanks! Great feedback.

    I have a bunch of 10w40 motorcycle oil I got from a relative who reps them (ZMax). I don't know anything about it and have been reluctant to run it in my own bikes (none of which use 10w40 anyway). Flushing the trans is a perfect way to get through some of it!
     
  18. jtn0514

    jtn0514 Rookie

    Aug 16, 2024
    41
    Austin, TX
    #18 jtn0514, May 29, 2025
    Last edited: May 29, 2025
    I did the same and removed the intake manifold. Removing the intake is a good way to go about it, especially if you're going to do a major service. Just do it all at once and make it easier to get to everything. Mine wasn't leaking, however... its 25 years old this year and i figured if i made it this far, i was already on borrowed time. Replaced it with one from Awitalian and went on my way. I did however re-use the factory clamps on the newly supplied boots as they factory clamps are much better.

    Watch for the way you route the gearbox lines also when you put the new heat exchanger back in. Wiring harnesses near stainless braided lines can be a potential disaster when they start chaffing through the harness.

    Make sure to check the rubber 180 degree brake booster lines on your intake manifold near the banjo fittings and any other hoses around it while the intake is off.

     
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  19. hessank

    hessank Formula 3
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    #19 hessank, May 29, 2025
  20. mfennell70

    mfennell70 Formula Junior

    Nov 3, 2003
    619
    Middletown, NJ
    #20 mfennell70, Jun 9, 2025
    I'm going with 'probably'? :) I can't imagine having two temp sensors.
     
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  21. mfennell70

    mfennell70 Formula Junior

    Nov 3, 2003
    619
    Middletown, NJ
    #21 mfennell70, Jun 10, 2025
    No pics but I'm finally putting parts back ON the car. Torqued down the oil lines for the new exchanger this morning. Kind of funny detail - although the new AW Italian-sourced heat exchanger is properly tapped for the oil bolts, the fittings seem to be 1".

    Here's a shot of the tubes. I don't see any evidence of corrosion on this side. Maybe some day I'll be ambitious enough to cut it up and look at the inside.

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    The stickers on the exchanger that came out of the car. Is this original?

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    I replaced the coolant line in the valley too.
     
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  22. EastMemphis

    EastMemphis Formula 3
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    May 25, 2019
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    #22 EastMemphis, Jun 10, 2025
    That shows the transaxle side is likely the source of the corrosion.

    It's likely that your syncros are also degraded too.

    Look into the oil ports. You'll probably see some really gross junk in there.

    Make sure you use a yellow metal friendly oil this time.
     
    67bmer likes this.
  23. mfennell70

    mfennell70 Formula Junior

    Nov 3, 2003
    619
    Middletown, NJ
    #23 mfennell70, Jun 10, 2025
    I've personally used Redline 75w90NS with a little additive all the time I've owned the car. Classic Coach used something else I can't recall.
     
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  24. mfennell70

    mfennell70 Formula Junior

    Nov 3, 2003
    619
    Middletown, NJ
    #24 mfennell70, Jun 24, 2025
    Proceeding slowly. Exchanger in. New coolant hose. Don't look at the clamp alignment if you're detail oriented. :)

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    A friend stopped by yesterday and we set the intake back in place.

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    The only real challenge left is getting the wiring harness re-attached, and maybe the front nuts on the intake runners. I bought a top-side creeper that lets me climb waaaaay in there without putting any weight on the Challenge grille and get my arm under the intake but (#firstworldproblem) my 4 post lift makes it a chore to set up. I have to raise the car to an exact height to let the legs slide under the lift and have the pad as low as possible.
     
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  25. mfennell70

    mfennell70 Formula Junior

    Nov 3, 2003
    619
    Middletown, NJ
    #25 mfennell70, Jun 25, 2025
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