V10

I was camped out in the grandstands near the end of pit lane before P1 that weekend. It was surprisingly empty. A bunch of old guys nearby were making fun of me for bringing earplugs.

When the first cars rolled by, one of the guys took off his sweatshirt and wrapped it around his head. Another guy stuffed napkins in his ears. Never did get an apology.

 

haha! I had a near identical experience. I had earplugs and those old guys wished they did

they would vibrate the grandstands they were so loud. awesome cars

 

The locals petitioned and managed to have racing stopped in Battersea, London, UK, after a couple of years.
They claimed noise and inconvenience was affecting their lives.
That was ONLY the e-Prix with electric cars !! Never under-estimate a strong lobby.

 

The V10 talk will also affect out newest Team Cadillac potentially.

 

I have always thought F-1 was its best when there was diversity of design. The Renault episode you note, is prime example. at that time they made NA road cars, but also were working on more Turbo models, and especially for trucks.... the technology was a direct impact on cars in general of the early mid 80's... anyone who has driven a Turbo R5 will attest!

 

If Cosworth was able to make an engine for F-1 , and the regs allowed I could see Gordon Murray and Bugatti leasing their engines for racing... it would be a huge defrayment of cost..... Cosworth has built both those engines. I think it would be awesome to have larger multi cylinder engines again in F1. if you have a design for 20 -24 cyl bring it on.

 

+1
I never understood why the FIA departed from that philosophy, and why the teams accepted it.

 

Let the N/A engines run at 600 Kg (like in 2004) and the Hybrids run at 800 Kgs (as now).

Engine cost was not a problem when engine design cost $20M-$50M. So one could design several engines per year.
Engine cost became a problem when they were specified to last 5 race weekends instead of 1 practice session.
Engine were specified to last 5 race weekends to reduce costs--and that has been proven absolutely friggen wrong in so many ways.

 

the best way to cut costs in F1 is to run out of sponsorship money

 

F1 has always been about cutting edge technology. Always. V10's are decidedly not that. It would be the end of what f1 is imo, no longer the most technologically advanced cutting edge of vehicles if they go back to antique v10's. It would be full lean into entertainment vs. racing which is what everyone here is supposedly lamenting. And just for sound? It's stupid. I probably won't watch if they do that, after 40 years of watching.

The cutting edge, currently, is hybrid technology and decidedly not paired with a v10. Pretty much every other combination is being experimented with in hybrid format, from small turbos to NA v8/v12/v16's, but no v10's. If we get a battery capacity jump to where an f1 car can run a full race on one charge and without massive weight, that will be the direction to go, as that will be the cutting edge of automotive transportation. That's still a ways off, but F1 should always be about the most advanced automotive technology, that's the ethos of f1 going back to the start. Going back to v10's would be the the coffin f1 would be laid to rest in imo.

 

No the first nail in the coffin is the Hybrid Formula; the second is Liberty Media.

 

Cadillac is no stranger to multi-cylinder engines
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Yeh, hybrid era! Lift and coast, save engine, save fuel. Cars are too heavy and too long, all BS. Should run flat out hard the whole race! Take some of the areo away, Get rid of the tire rules. Let the drivers determine the finish instead of pit strategy. Race outcome should come down to racing on the track between drivers! Anyway my opinion.

 

nope

(V12 not V10)

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At the INDY USGP. Stopped for fuel before Speedway, could hear the screaming V-10s miles away. I have been to many car races in my 74 years, by far the best was Indy F1 down the straight!!!

 

Any and all professional sports are entertainment. Formula 1 not only is not an exception to this, but should be the leader when it comes to motorsports.

Formula 1 in any capacity will remain at the cutting edge of technology. It doesn't matter how restricted or open the rule books are, F1 teams will spend countless hours and eye watering amounts of money to find every last bit of performance. We're not talking about production V10s here. If we go back 20 years, those V10s in 2005 are still among the most advanced, high tech ICE's on the planet. 950ish horsepower out of just 3L and revving to nearly 19,000 rpm. That's insane. We know the next generation of V10s will be on sustainable fuel and almost certainly have restrictions in fuel use and will probably be paired with some sort of hybrid technology. That's pretty cutting edge to me.

It sounds like you want more and more electric. Formula E does exist if that's what you want. Personally I think going more and more electric is a huge downgrade to technological advancement. Manufacturers have remarkably skipped over the hybrid potential in favor of full electric garbage. Many of the hybrid vehicles sold are plug in hybrid systems. Toyota still has a proper hybrid that recharges itself. I like hybrid tech and I want it all self contained within the vehicle. The fact we never even seen it make it to diesel trucks baffle me. We have heard the cry babies at the manufacturers talking about wanting F1 tech to be relatable to their production cars. It's all BS! The hybrids in F1 are completely different than any of the cost cutting crap that gets put in a production vehicle at some over inflated price.

Then there is the discussion about the racing. Since the beginning of the hybrid era, Formula 1 has become a management series. Especially when Pirelli signed on. Manage the tires, manage the fuel, manage the batteries, etc etc etc. If going back to V10s is the first step to getting F1 back to more of a flat out sprint, I am all for it. Seriously, drivers are managing the tires over a single qualifying lap.

 

You must be a big Formula E fan. At a time when auto manufacturers are turning away from that technology and looking at the ICE with a change in the fuels.

 

Look what WEC did to their cutting edge technology. Those LMP1 Audi R18 E-Trons were cutting edge technology and very very fast compared to the current hypercar class.

Seems like F1 and WEC are dumbing down the technological advancements with regards to powering the cars.

 

I'm not, that technology is not mature enough yet. It's not better than hybrid or ice. When it is, F1 should move to it.

 

Cost. They were trying to prevent it becoming a spending war. I think they could open it back up now that they have a cost cap, but they'd need to cap engine spending.

 

The final 2 are the 2026 formula, engine and movable aero.

The V10 proposal is a sledgehammer that can blow apart the coffin.

 

The current regs aren't about cutting edge performance technology, they're about pushing the boundaries of efficiency. Yawn.

Of course the teams will push the performance envelope within those boundaries, but the fact is, it's a formula that's produced cars that many of us find dull.

If you gave teams the choice to run with or without hybrids, without restrictions on fuel and fuel flow and they still chose V6 hybrids, I'd find your argument more compelling.

Then again, V6s under those regs would presumably rev to the moon (now there's an area of technical development that would interest me), so you'd hear a lot less grumbling about them - even if they'd never sound sound as good as the V10s.

Funny how two different fans value such different things. For you, it would be a sunset. For me, a new dawn.

I loved F1 as much as anyone. But I've grown disillusioned. I find the sound and appearance of today's car dull and clinical. Modern track design and runoff has made the racing less exciting - too few consequences for mistakes has changed the risk calculus too much. For twenty odd years, I rarely missed a moment of any practice session, qualifying or race. Today I rarely bother to tune in.

A return to V10s wouldn't solve all of those problems, but it would be a big step. At least the goosebumps would return.

Sadly for me, I doubt it will happen.

 

I have the same recollection. One season (2000 or 2001) the Mclaren Mercedes had unique exhaust manifolding that created an otherworldly shriek/howl. You could identify the exhaust note from miles away.

 

Exactly my opinion !! But I think we are in a minority here.

I think abandoning hybrid technology to go back to atmo V10 would turn F1 into Formula Nostalgia.