Antigravity Batteries now a sponsor... any questions, let us know.

Hey all, we (Antigravity Batteries) just became a sponsor of Ferrari Chat. So we wanted to make a post for those who might have questions about Lithium technology for Starter Batteries and other related products. So, if you guys have any technical questions about Lithium batteries for your Cars, or just any tech questions regarding Lithium Batteries and their uses in replacement of Starter Batteries and more please let us know and we'll give you the straight answers with only facts.

If you're not familiar with our brand, we manufacture Lithium Starter Batteries for Cars/Trucks/Motorcycles and more. We are most known in the Hi Performance and Racing Automotive side of things and are popular in the aftermarket but also used by some OEMs, for example in the new Pagani Eutopia and also the upcoming Ford Mustang GTD. We specialize in Lithium Batteries and related product, such as Starter Battteries, Jump Starters, Deep Cycle Lithium Batteries and are also in the Motorcycle Side of this segments. So feel free to ask any questions.

 

Hey Kestrou, very cool. We love Customs... thanks for using our products! That was one of the original areas we focused on long ago. I'm a massive motohead personally, I don't have a Chopper, but I do have 6 bikes. We used to do alot of the Custom bike Trade shows and Custom Bikes are my favorite bikes to oogle over... the work you builders do is freaking amazing.

 

Hi Lusso, awesome questions... I will preface my answers with this, since we are new here. I'm a battery nerd and will tend to over-expain stuff... so bear with me. I also do this for future reader to get as much education as possible. Also you can always fact check us because our company's mission on forums is not as much to market (though we do that), but as just lay out facts and educate the readers on the technology.

Let me give an explination about term "Lithium-Ion" in the event you or a future reader are unaware. The term "Lithium-Ion" is an umbrella term that includes many different Lithium Chemistries. It simply means a rechargable form of Lithium type Chemistries. There are several different type of Lithium Chemistries. Some have much more energy density and are not very stable, for example as you saw in the Scooters that caught fire often a few years back. Other chemistries are very stable, rarely if ever have a fire incident, but are less energy dense. So each different Lithium Chemistries has certain attributes, but often they are ALL called "Lithium-Ion" so people think ALL Lithium Batteries are the same, and they can ALL might be like the Scooter catching fire easily, but that is not so accurate.

-The particular chemistry we use in Lithium Starter Batteries for Cars is called Lithium-Iron Phosphate, Lifepo4/LFP... all those names represent the same Lithium Chemistry. It is regarded as the safest format of Lithium due to it lower energy density, ability to accept high charging currents without overheating, yet also offers high output current which is great for starting cars. It is currently used by Companies such as Porsche, Mercedes , McLaren, Ferrari for their Starter Batteries in thier more performance-related Cars as well as in many Motorcycle Brands nowadays. It has a exceptionally high safety record in all those vehicles. Also an important factor in a quality "Lithiium Starter Battery" is that is has a built-in Battery Management System that has many protections built into it so it can't really go into a Fire incident or be damaged... I will go into that a little below.

-In regards to Heat, yes that can affect any battery chemistry, but it has been proven out by independant labs that Lead/Acid (AGM/FLA/GEL) is more prone to heat degradation than Lifepo4/LFP Lithium Battery Cells. Its called Thermal Stability in the Battery world, so Lifepo4 Lithium chemistry is better in high heat use. We, can prove that out to a high degree since we are used in tons of Race Cars with Front Engines with Twin Turbo that generate crazy heat in the engine bay, the highest temps from any vehicles we are used in. So we have not had a Fire Incident occur due to this, and it will surpass the temperatures of any passenger version of a Car being those are designed to not exceed certain temps. So Lithium will be a better alternative at higher heats actually.

-As far as high heat creating a Fire event for a Lifepo4 Battery. To explain a little more, a Lifepo4/LFP battery does not go into a fire episode if overheated in an exterior manner... for example a hot engine bay as you mentioned. In fact we actually do have insulation inside our battery to prevent heat/cold from penetrating to the Lithium cell pack easily.... But its actually the INTERIOR High Temperature that can make a Lifepo4 Battery go into what is called "Thermal Runaway" which is a melt-down of the battery. Thermal Runaway is caused for a few reasons, like over-charging a battery that is in a severly over-discharged state. For example if you have a Lithium Batttery that is at 2v, and you jump or bump start the Car... then the Car starts putting out its full Current from its charging system back into a Lithium Battery, but the Lithium Battery cannot accept that full current when it is so over discharged, so it then starts to overheat internally and causes a chemical and thermal reaction that self heats the battery to the point it starts to melt itself down internally and keeps feeding of it own heat. Lifepo4 in general will not catch fire but will smolder at high heat and in very rare cases could catch fire. BUT ...with all that being said, the FACT is the a Modern High Quality Lithium Battery WILL NOT allow the Thermal Runaway to occur, because the Lithium Battery has a built-in "Battery Management System" (BMS) inside the battery itself that monitors the batteries interior heat and will shut down the battery if temperature become too high. As well as having the protections for Over-Temperature, the BMS provide Protection again Over-Current, Over-Voltage, with Thermal protections for both too High or too Low of temperatures. It will also balancing of the Lithium Cells so they charge evenly. So these BMS Protections actaully create a Battery that will not allow these Thermal Runaway events to occur.

 

Thanks for using our products, and yes you nailed it... because of the 13.2v nominal voltage of the Antigravity Lithium comapred to 12.6~8v of a Lead, you have a slightly higher voltage which the Car prefers, but also, because it has a much higher pulse discharge current than Lead/Acid you get a very solid start without the level of voltage drop in that a Lead/Acid/AGM has. You also get a more stable voltage because lithium has a very flat discharge profile over its capacity. For example it like a flat line at 13.2v... then when it is discharrged it drops off a cliff. But a lead Acid as it discharges is losing its voltage and has a capacity profile like a slope so it loses power as its capacity drops, which doesn't happen with Lithium.

What we found with Ferraris, is that depending on models, some have, or I should say MOST have a very high level of parasitic draw which created a situation for using a larger Amp Hour Llithium Battery. Like for Porsches and most other performance Cars a 40Ah battery works perfectly fine, but for the Ferraris we recommend go with a 60Ah battery which will really blow away even and 80~90ah Lead battery in length of time in storage and power.

But I do have alot to learn and test with the F-Cars since I'm mostly only familiar with the 458 and later that are using us. I just got a 296 and I'm starting to test it chargiing profiles and parasitic drain and such... so as I learn more i'll post in the forums...

 

I get your point, but we can note that Ferrari and Porsche and others offer thier own Lithium Batteries as a performance upgrades for their cars which is basically the same as what we also offering. I don't think they are actually changing the spring rates on the Car, or putting other ballast in to negate the difference from the persepective of manufacturing, because that would add time and cost to building cars that are the same model, yet only the battery changes. I know my previous GT3RS had nothing to change balast. Please note, I have not been to the Ferrari factory or taken that tour, so I am "assuming" for Ferrari. But we are also in a very very large number of Race Cars from IMSA to Lap Battle Cars to Off-Road Baja Cars/Trucks, and we have not really seen ballast added to act against weight loss... and they do have batteries in different areas.... though we know that do that in Nascar.

But let me point out there is several MORE IMPORTANT features of our Lithium Batteries compared to just the lightweight people are familar with.... For example our Antigravity Lithium Batteries actually have a Patent Pending RE-START feature, and about an 8-10 year lifespan. The RE-START feature is a BUILT-IN WIRELESS Jump Starting features so you will never be stranded by a dead battery again and it wireless so you don't have to access the battery to jump start the vehicle. Additionally our Antiravity Lithium Battery has multiple built in protections on its Battery Management Circuit Board that prevent the battery from being over-discharged and damaged which is the number one cause of failures in Lead/Acid Batteries. It also has over-voltage, over-current, over and under temperature protections so that the battery cannot be damaged, which increase its lifespan even more. And while they do cost more than lead acid, our Lithium Battery is literally 75% less in cost compared to the the Ferrari Lithium Battery while offering more features and better performance. So that is available to any Ferrari, or other Brand vehicle running and AGM Battery you can simply swap it out directly. So for those potentially interested in Lithium you can base part of your decision or interest in those additional features our Lithium batttery can offer over lead/acid batteries.

 

Well we are not a certification organization but I assume you're just asking what we would recommend and in that case I can say that we recommend CTEK, Optimate, and our own Antigravity Chargers being we have worked with and sold these products for a very long time. I may in fact be missing other companies that are good but these are specific companies we have sold their products and been happy with their performance. I am not well versed in battery tender because we have found some of their products to be relatively cheaply made but that is not to disparage them, we just haven't used them. There may be other fine Brands out there, but again if we haven't personally used them and do not have a track record with them I'm not in a position to comment on their abilities or lack of.

 

We currently do not have the proprietary adapters that Ferrari used on their Chargers for connections to the Cars.... meaning the 4-pin, and the Magcode type adapters. We are in fact working with a company to get those adapters, but that will take about 2 months to get ours in, and we are still checking if we want to do that because we don't think a charger connections at the back of the Car is good because the length of wire it has to go through to get to the battery... and that resistance could interfere with good solid charging. I can tell you that you can find SAE to Ferrari adapters on Ebay and some on Amazon that will work fine, but yes that is an extra expense.

Our Antigravity Super Chargers use the standard SAE type of connector of which they make tons of different adapters for, and we chose that because we wanted the Customer to be able to find any adapters and not be tied to Proprietary connectors like CTEK, NOCO and some others use. We don't like that because we think the Customer should be able to use standardized connectors. We have our Superchargers in 10Amp and 4amp Versions, we recommend the 10Amp for much better and faster charging on Auto Batteries since they are over 50 Amp Hours. In all cases you can put our pigtail on a Battery in a Ferrari, but we understand many will not want to do that, but we are trying to get those solution soon. Also on the older Ferraris they came with a pretty low end CTEK charger that was only about 1A or just enough to keep the battery maintained but not charge it quickly. So in that circumstance and upgrade to 5Amp minimum or more is suggested.

Heres an overview of our charger on Youtube...

 

Checking... we had a Motorcycle Distributor in NSW and they distributed most of our stuff going to ask if they still are valid.

 

So here is the issue...sorry it not so much a hard YES OR NO... its a "Yes, IF" and "NO, if"

We do not like to say to use Lead/Acid Versions of Chargers with a Lithium Batteries. But it depends if your particular lead/acid Charger has what is called a "recovery mode", or "rescue mode" and other such names... becuase those types of chargers spike voltage when they go into that mode, which is fine for removing sulfates from a lead/acid, but Lithium does not sulfate, and it BMS may interfere with spiking voltage from those types of lead/Acid chargers. So the short answer is YES you would be subjected to getting another charger UNLESS we can know the brand and model of your charger the I can research it to see if it has that Recovery Mode. So if you want to get me that model and part # I'd be glad to do the research. So, if its not one of those Recondition type chargers all would be perfectly fine for our Lithium Battery...

Now for my long winded answer and information. For those that do not know the Smart Chargers for Lead/Acid Batteries often have this Recondition Mode... which is a mode to remove sulfates from Lead/Acid Batteries so we at Antigravity Batteries say "dont use Lead/Acid Chargers on Lithium Batteries." then the people will then ask "How can you say not to use a Lead/Acid Charger on your Lithium Battery, yet you claim you battery directlyh replaces a Lead/Acid Battery in the Car?" Well, that because a Cars Charging system DOES NOT have this Recovery MODE, like these chargers do. A Cars charging profile is perfect for Lithium Batteries and AGM Batteries. So it is only with the stand alone Chargers that we say don't use Lead/acid Versions on Lithium Batteries. Hope that makes some sense.