Restoration Costs of Classic Ferraris.

So is JFK

 

Carini is all TV. A Mr. 'know it all'. Many of those around.

 

Again in my opinion he undermined his reputation pretty badly in that show. He and I were at one time on the same party circuit in Monterey. I called him the shortest man on TV. Constant self promoter.

 

An Mr Epstein as well!

 

OK ,I know, here he goes again! I used the combination term restoration/conservation project when working on my car from 2000 to 2008. One prime example is that the hand made bodies were not symmetrical originally as can be seen on the attached photo where the difference in the spacing is nearly one inch. Conservation meant leaving the difference in place.

Best regards,

Robert

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Robert, you are absolutely right! How else could it have been done?
...."restoration is the process of returning a vehicle to its original, factory-fresh condition....." even including the asymmetrical differences.

Alas I only have experience in Dino, yet we left all as was, including the 'handmade' nuances. Could have made the doors switchable between the 2 cars,
but, with what purpose? Same with the rest of body parts.
What is so difficult to understand? Seems that people have many, many interpretations. Let them be. Anyhow, you can only see one side at a time,
and with your perfect diagram, it could not be clearer.

Kind regards,
Alberto

 

You ought to visit some of the Renaissance restorers in Europe, maybe you and a lot of people, may understand that there is only one way.
Go to Egypt, and visit a few tombs, then, you might understand, about recreating and 'restoring imperfections.'

You simply have no idea what it means according to your statements. Not a critique, but a reality check. Besides, are trying to help with the subject, or discharge your frustrations?

A brilliant mechanic, definitely, a restorer..... well, I admit I don't know about the latter.
What is a PB Standard? A Go/no Go gauge?

Regards, Alberto

 

It sounds as though you were fortunate in getting an example without significant crash history.
I remember one of the panel beaters at Griswold Restoration was given a 250 GTO to do the sheet metal portion of the restoration. It was a well documented car and one side was known not to have ever been repaired. He made templates of that side Every subsequent GTO repair he did was shaped like that one. At least it was correct for one of them.

 

Well, completely wrong. An abomination.

 

Since English is clearly your second language I'll forgive you for being totally clueless.

 

Regretfully you are wrong, English is my 5th language. Pray tell, how many languages do you speak? Do you even have a passport? And, I will not allow you to talk to me in that tone. Clear?

PS. Trying to help, It is "Cowboy Capital" not Capitol. I think you barely speak that language.

 

I’d like to add that IMO, “Restoration” is probably the most misunderstood & -used term associated with vintage vehicles and while a “complete/full/proper restoration” is not quite as commonly (mis)used, it certainly is even more misunderstood by 99+% of people, including most vintage car owners and even “restorers”, who believe/think that something like a brake job, re-paint, recovering seats & door panels, ”rebuilding” an engine & transmission along with few other such mechanical or electrical “overhauls” equals to a “full restoration”.

Whenever I hear or see someone being perplexed over the practical & realistic costs of a complete/full/proper restoration of any vintage car, let alone something like a Ferrari, I take it they have little to no first-hand experience, involvement or understanding of such undertaking and how many thousands of hours of (skilled) labor, not to mention parts & materials it usually requires, regardless of vehicle, although complexity & size of the subject does play a part*.

In my mind, a true vintage car enthusiast doesn’t care or worry whether the cost of acquisition or “restoration” makes some sort of financial sense. There are countless examples where buyers/owners are or have been willing to spend far money more on their enjoyment of their car(s) than makes sense to speculators/wannabes pretending to be enthusiasts and are too worried about the dollars and cents.
It has been said that taking a trip around the world or vacations in exotic locations often cost a lot, but do they make financial sense or are they supposed to ?
What about people spending tens or hundreds of thousands for weddings, etc ? Is there supposed to be ROIs in those ?

Only reason why some associate a direct relation between “perceived market value” and “restoration” is someone’s ability/willingness to undertake, i.e. commission & pay for a complete/full/proper latter, whether it is performed on a 250 GTO, Daytona, Fiat Dino or Ford Escort and that’s why we don’t see "completely/fully/properly restored" Escorts or Fiats and rarely even Daytonas or Dinos.

Whenever I hear/read a claim of any “car”, even if something as simple as an early ‘60s Ferrari GT or Plymouth Valiant, having been subjected to “every-nut-&-bolt restoration” with costs/expenditures less than, let's say $200K-$250 or something similar, I immediately wonder how many & which issues/items were not addressed, let alone properly.

And let’s not forget that just because a car is or has been awarded BoS at Pebble or Cavallino, etc doesn’t necessarily mean it’s authentically, correctly and/or fully restored.

*The fact remains that all else, i.e. condition, etc being equal, a complete/full/proper restoration of, let’s say, a 1959 Crown Imperial Limousine (1 of 7 made with coachwork by Ghia & price tag of $16,000 when new), due to its complexity (i.e. having any kind of accessory and/or power assist feature one can think of available at the time) & it’s sheer size will require at least couple of thousand more labor hours than, let’s say, a PF Cab or Coupe, which both themselves are more complex (read more labor intense & time consuming) to restore than, let’s say, a SWB Berlinetta or California Spyder and none of this has anything to do with their perceived “market values”...
... or...
... the fact that discounting decades longer overall deterioration of all components/parts, a “complete/full/proper restoration” of any car took same amount of labor to perform 10/20/40+ years ago and the reasons why they weren’t often done were same as today.
Only thing that has changed over the decades, along with availability or lack of parts (& to some extent skilled labor), is hourly rate numbers, which along with every other increase in cost of living is just reality, nothing more, nothing less and has not made "restorations" any more or less costly.

 

not sure i can define “restoration”, but i know one when i see one.

 

So what is restoration of a Caravaggio, or a Vermeer, a Van Gogh?

What does it entail? Thoughts?

 

are those pasta dishes? sorry i dont cook

 

Ever heard of Cy Twombly?

Marcel Massini

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You're picking a fight with a Cavallino judge. I think @Rifledriver knows what a restoration looks like. Have a few days off to consider how juvenile your attitude is.

 

While I don’t agree with the banned user’s posts whatsoever, is what he posted really violating any TOS??

 

Going back on point , I was told by a well known , top shelf Costa Mesa shop that paint could cost upwards of 3-4 k just for material . ( if you can do the California dance to get it ) !,

 

Banning here is a sport. I'd hate to think anyone has that thin a skin. People want to look stupid....let them. Then again some topics like Smog regulations are 100% politically driven but say the word legislation and your post will be deleted for political content. Hard to have a conversation here. We are so worried about the kiddies getting feelings hurt.

 

1.1 No "Flaming": Please do not post any messages that harass, insult, belittle, threaten or flame another user.

1.2 No "Trolling": Please do not post any topic that disrupts the peace and harmony of this community. Don't create meaningless threads with the sole purpose of starting a dispute. This includes messages in profiles and signatures.

 

A Triade could be the way to go

 

There in lies the challenge, there are many different opinions on exactly what a restoration is.