360 F1 Neutral issues- help!

I picked up my 360 F1 today after purchasing it in Feb and having a major service and head rebuild completed by an independent. (Story for another day!)
While driving it home I experienced the F1 trans slipping onto N while driving. I pulled the paddles and pressed the auto button a few times and it went back to the original gear (3/4) and carried on as normal.
That was until it went into N and wouldn’t go back into gear. Right in the middle of a busy road. I called for a tow truck and kept trying it every 10 mins, until finally it worked and I went on my way. I was stranded a good hour.
I’m waiting on my thinkdiag scanner tool but hoping I can get some advice on what this intermittent issue could be.
Any tests I should be doing?
Thanks

 

Worn out clutch?

 

I'm sorry this happened to you. I had something similar to this happen to me in an F430. Once the car was up to operating temperature, it would not go into reverse. Once the car was cooled down, it worked again. There are a lot of threads here about this specific issue and what causes it to happen. Its very embarrassing if you're on a public street because everyone is looking at the broken down Ferrari. I think in my case, it was because the PIS wasn't adjusted properly and as the car heats up, it caused the clutch to miss gears or something to that effect.

It's not a huge issue in terms of cost to get it corrected if its just the PIS. I think it could also be connected to the FI pump too which is more costly. I wish you good luck and hope you aren't down too long.

 

What MY your 360 F1 ?

 

I would also check the engine cover is not open slightly as there are two contacts at the back where it shuts to tell you it's open on dash.
They can sometime become a little corroded and cause the symptoms you have of.it dropping into neutral.
Worth a check.

 

2000

 

OK.
Unfortunately if you still have the 2000 TCU your Thinkdiag will be of no help as it won't be able to connect to the TCU.

 

It will be the parameters of how the F1 transmission has been set up. My guess is that it will be marginally out as I had a similar issue on my 2000. Take it to somebody who knows what they are doing.

 

The c

Oh, that’s annoying- What other OBD2 unit works with a 2000? Any recommendations?

 

Flash32 will be here soon to rescue you...

 

Only expensive diag tools (SD2, Texa, Autoengenuity, ...) can connect to early TCUs.
It's less expensive, in addition to better performances, to change the TCU for a later one and to use your Thinkdiag.

 

For read only diag tool ...no promises ..but you can try the ap200 old version ..iirc I used it on an older 360..but only read functions

50 dollars

https://a.co/d/iL4bDJ4

If you want PM me your number and after you get the diag tool we can jump on the phone and see what is going on

We can also talk about Eric suggestion (good one)

 

When this exact thing happened to my MY 2000 Modena, it was a worn clutch. Open up the inspection port and ... inspect.

 

Thanks all for the suggestions. Flash32- I’ve ordered the unit and will send you my contact.

I walked the issue through with a Ferrari tech locally to me and he suggested it might be the relays overheating. I was in a lot of stop start traffic on a warm day yesterday. The fact it cooled down and worked fine, together with the heavy traffic (it was crazy for 45 mins).
What are the thoughts on this? Anyway to test?
I had no check engine lights on when it wouldn’t change from N.

 

We can get on phone and go thru stuff even before the tool comes ..I will await your contact info

 

You need to adjust the PIS while the transaxle is hot. Not idling hot, but after a good 20 miles run-hot.

 

Just a quick update

Paul and I spoke and performed a few tests
Tomorrow the Autel will arrive and we will do a couple more tests
Have some thoughts and theories but nothing conclusive yet
Stay tuned

 

Further update

We reviewed the data using the ap200 and made a parts list

Considering and as mentioned above any bi-directional tool necessary to actually do the repair is more than upgrading the TCU ..OP will go ahead and purchase the TCU from Eric ..once we install we will proceed with the part replacement and dial in the car

Hopefully next update will be after all is fixed from the F1 prospective

 

In my experience it was a worn clutch. Started with the F1 going into neutral on its own when I was driving from a stop, usually between second to third gear. Then it started happening on the highway. While I was in sixth gear it would just go into neutral. I never had an issue over revving or getting back into gear. Changed the clutch and the issue never returned. I would say that it started doing this when my old clutch had about 30% life left on it. Sorry to hear you got stuck. I still own my 360 after eleven years and it has proven to be an extremely reliable car. Good luck with your trouble shooting.

 

An update:
I have been working extensively with Flash32 on this issue. We talk on a regular basis over the phone as we continue to diagnose and fix the issue (s). More on Flash32 below.
First, I sourced a flashed TCU from Eric355, plus the Thinkdiag2 unit. This enabled us to work deeper in the system and access data.
Flash32 identified immediate issues with the accumulator, clutch solenoid and the need for a new relay.... plus a bleed of the clutch and actuator. This provided a strong foundation for continuing to identify weaknesses in the system. The system was over working and not holding pressure.
The next issue was that I was experiencing P1741 and P1742 errors when the trans and engine were warm (over 30 mins). At which point 3rd gear would still go into N on the downshift and then the trans would be stuck in N. We replaced the potentiometer sensors and went through the necessary recalibration procedures. Flash32 had me check all wiring, at which point I did find an issue near the connector where there was a cut in the insulation. This was repaired. The lower sensor did have Trans oil inside which indicated a leak or a result of weeping actuator seals as the car had been sat around for a while. Replacing the sensors and rechecked the senor after a couple of days and there was no oil. Again, ticking off the list of issues.
Flash32 helped me identify it wasn't the trans forks sticking, but the actuator button not able to complete the motion. He looked up the F1 actuator solenoids linked to particular gear changes and recommended I switched over two solenoids to see if we could influence the 3rd downshift gear issue. A full system bleed followed.
This fixed the issue. I have now driven the car for 45 mins on two consecutive days and not had any issues on the 3rd downshift and not had the error codes return. I will continue to drive the car in the current state for the next 2 weeks to make sure I have a solid foundation. Then, I will work with Flash32 on the PIS. Car drives well, but want to make sure it is dialed in.

Now for feedback on Flash32....... I have had the absolute pleasure to get to know him. Not only is he incredibly knowledgeable, but patient and very methodical to diagnose issues. He has helped me increase my own personal knowledge in this car and help me enjoy my hobby in working and driving my car. His ask was for me to pass it forward, which I did this morning. Donating to a Children' Cancer Charity. Helping children and families in their journey to fight cancer.

Thanks Ferrarichat, Thanks Flash32!

I'll continue to share updates on this topic as things progress.

 

Paul

I am so blessed to have the ability to help and I am so appreciative of the donation you made

I am glad we were able to get thru / getting thru the issues to sort your car out

It truly has been a pleasure getting to know you and becoming friends

Thank you again for paying it forward

 

Glad you're seeing progress! I've been following closely since I have super similar issues, so thank you for the insight and the updates. I'm waiting on an Alpha accumulator (71751195) from Germany now which I feel confident will alleviate my short cycling. Going to swap that out and do a thorough bleed like you did.

Did you use the thinkdiag 2 for the bleed process?

 

@Rjvb3 the best advice I can give you is to connect with Flash32. The knowledge and experience he shared with me was so valuable, he diagnosed the issues I had and even shared links for the parts from unaffiliated sites to either save money or avoid parts (brands) which he had experienced issues with and walked me through the procedures to fit the parts and finally run the tests to check the issues were resolved. I literally would be still chasing my tail and spending unnecessary crazy money.
If you're wondering who this guy is- read the thread on him: (quick search)
Flash32 contributions | Page 5 | FerrariChat

I believe his first consultation is free. (you have nothing to lose) and then he's asking for a charity donation for additional time.

You'll come away with a working car and feeling good at the same time. ...... at least I did!!

Good luck with the fix.

ps- yes I did use the Thinkdiag2 for the bleed, but there were other steps and mapping we also did to verify the gear engagement and positioning was correct.

 

Flash32 for the win again!
Dominick is a blessing to this community -and if his contributions on here are anything to go by- to his own community as well.
The world needs more Dominick’s.

 

Thanks Jeremy