Can Ferrari survive without winning F1?

When I had my shop I was contracted to do Maserati warranty work (we had a factory trained tech) because the local dealer was overloaded. But all the parts still had to be ordered through the dealer. I could not use independent suppliers (example, brake parts, fuel and oil filters, bearings or timing belts). I doubt very much if your independent shop has access to buying parts directly from the UK through their system.

The good part of doing warranty work is you get information and a pretty flow of work. The bad part is you have to charge by their rate book which often was way under the amount of hours needed. So you try to find shortcuts or just take the low margin.

So its not much different. McLaren controls its parts supplies. I don't think any indy shop walking into a Mac dealer would not be able to buy parts from McLaren.

But I cannot say I blame them. The cars are complicated and they don't want untrained indy shops messing with them.

 

i did not say he uses non-oem parts. what i said was that since he does the work on behalf of mclaren he gets the parts needed without any problems, presumably from them.

 

in and out of the car?

several ways. once you have done it a few times it becomes easier.
i have driven the 720s, the 570 s, and the GT. all very good cars.
the only thing i really did not like was the seat controls

 

Primarily out of course, but in was no picnic either. The seat is alot lower than the top of the sill. Alot easier in my Diablo, where while you have to duck under the scissor door the seat bottom and sill are close in height. Haven't ruled it out, but my excitement factor has diminished a good bit.

 

Maserati revival was a total failure though; while it could have developped into more mass-production in order to retain Ferrari's exclusivity, it ended up under Ferrari's tenure in selling less cars than Ferrari (with FIAT taking Maserati back under direct control eventually) and the Ferrari brand was used to sell more easily models like the new California (and the PuroSangue is in the same line), that were not "true" to the Ferrari spirit.

 

It wasn't at first. I know dealers liked them. And I got on the F430 order list by buying one.

When it was sold off it certainly went downhill (even further).

You know when I bought my Maserati I got a letter from Luca thanking me. I bought one of the first ones in the USA.

 

Exactly. But it requires a factory tech to get that kind of relationship.

The point being an indy shop cannot buy parts.

 

You took shortcuts Bob? I'm shocked, shocked I tell you!

 

My mechanic came up with a way to remove a Turbo without pulling the engine. Bi-turbos blew up a LOT of turbos!

 

i dont think you are correct.
the indy shop where i take the amg cars, also do work on mclaren's and can get parts easily enough since there are plenty of mclarens in the yard.

 

They may have changed their policy but it wasn't always so.

 

Yes.

EOM.


Couple of points...
1. Ferrari is established and mythical. Nothing can replace it. Nothing can have that kind of history now.

2. F1 used to have some relevance to road cars... Now even if there is some that makes it... No one cares. It's so techy and no one understands it and it's beyond the capability of the owners of the cars and really you can't explore the added capability on the road.

There is just no trickle down effect. It has zero relevance to road cars. Zero. Zero relevance to try driving experience day in and day out.of a road car.

3. McLaren doesn't really sell cars from F1. Porsche is massively successful without F1. Lamborghini too. They all do it without F1.

4. They did win lemans. Lemans class is probably more relatable just as it was in the 60s. Just remember I said more relatable than F1. Not actually relatable but just more relatable.


In my opinion... The problem is with F1. Not with Ferrari.

 

Oh, that is different than how I read it the first time. So if I took a non-warranted McLaren to Haris directly then he wouldn't be able to work on it because he couldn't buy McLaren parts correct? That is what the hang up used to be.

 

Agree, in the 2002-2006 period there was an excitement around what Maserati was offering. In 2005, that is how Ferrari of Houston pissed me off so bad I haven't been there since.....it was over trying to buy a Maserati.

Of course in time, they were revealed to be junk and sunk to the bottom never to rise again (although I like the MC20, not sure I can trust it or Maserati).

 

Right, that was my original question....even though I like the McLaren dealer in Houston now, relationships can and do change and I wouldn't want to be tied to just one repair option.

 

I think the question is, will Ferrari still be selling cars if not successful racing. The answer is clearly yes. Racing and Road Cars sales has very little to do with each other. Ferrari is a lifestyle brand / Luxury brand. I personally don't like the direction but there is not much you can do.

I think - Personal Opinion - what sets Ferrari, Porsche, Lamborghini apart is that they were for a long time one persons creation. I know the modern companies are conglomerates, but the core was just one person saying we'll do it this way. I like that, it appeals to me. There is this "DNA" that runs through Ferrari, that Enzo just did what he wanted come what may... the truth is far from that, but in the end he did what he liked and it paid off to him. Porsche much the same thing. I'd say that it was Ferry and Ferdinand behind Porsche, but largely the same family driving the results. That is why Montezemolo is now so well liked, he took over the Ferrari persona, and wore it - good and bad.

I've driven several McLarens, and been in almost all of them except the speed tail etc... the only one that I really like is the F1. its got Gordon Murray all over it. the Modern McLarens, do have a bit of Ron Dennis sterile, gray feel to them.... but fundamentally I think that is what turns me off, they are a created product from a company that only made 4 road cars when Bruce McLaren was alive... and none really worked... they were / are a race car company.

Bugatti, Rolls - Royce, Ford, Honda... all these companies started and named after a person (s) have a unique identity.... It may be very diluted today, but its still there. Brands like Toyota, Nissan, Chevy, GM, Audi, Mercedes, VW ( talk about one persons dream) .... just are a mix mash of identity.... Ferrari stands unique like a Monet or Vermeer, it has a certain touch that only that one guy could give.

 

You my friend truly understand why Ferrari is so special, I just wish the board members who run it today were the same

 

There's not much connection to Bruce McLaren (who, lets face it, was a great person in racing history that few Americans know much about). I remember McLaren made this horrific brand spot once where a dead Bruce McLaren walks the track to see his accident crash scene. What a terrible way to make a connection to the past. The McLaren car company is more closely tied to racing than Ferrari is to racing. If you look at the cars in the 60's Enzo built to afford to go racing, these also are legendary machines today.

I believe F1 racing for Ferrari is a direct link to Enzo. An unbroken chain. So if they quit F1 it might not hurt immediately, but long term I think it would as the brand because more diluted. Its not the same company that made a few hundred hand made cars a year and sold them to the wealthiest.

 

Well, I am a share holder - elect me Chairman, & I'll fix it..... I'll even start wearing dark glasses...

 

I think the reality is that there is now too much history on the net to wipe out Ferrari not racing. Yes, it would hurt me and those who are stalwarts... But in reality it would not slow down the brand. IF there was a major world wide recession and all of a sudden Ferrari is caught with 10K unsold cars, and prices collapse then maybe there would be damage in getting the brand back up, but unless the Angelli and Ferrari Families let it go, they will trade on their history. It's like a former Royal Family... they may not be in power but the name still creates a buzz... its the mystique.

 

Sure Ferrari can survive without winning in F1 - they have not won (much) between
Lauda and Schumacher, and have won little since Schumacher - but their car sales
and stock price has done nothing but go UP.

It used to be 'win on Sunday sell on Monday', especially in nascar, but that ship
sailed about 35 years ago as well.

Toyota seems to be doing well since they left F1...

 

I have read the exact same thing on many platforms.

 

But it cannot turn into a joke either. And I think when Williams comes in ahead, that's getting pretty close.

 

They really need a Ross Brawn or Adrian Newey - someone that can run the WHOLE team.
And not Toto Wolff.

Newey:

• Formula One

• Fittipaldi (1980)

• Haas Lola (1986)

• March (1988–1989)

• Leyton House (1990)

• Williams (1991–1996)

• McLaren (1997–2005)

• Red Bull (2006–2024)

• Aston Martin (2025–present)

 

Actually, I prefer Ferrari never wins another F1 title. My 2008 612 has this plaque on the dash. The last championship that Ferrari has won. Every year the value of my car goes up another $10,000 just because of the rarity of that plaque!

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