296 VS

Ordered GT3RS - final NA like Speciale - GT3RS is a parts bin car - to fix that I ordered the Manthey kit from Porsche.
Porsche makes versions of version like Lambo - the two are run by bean counters. How many body kits were placed on the Sian? Literally body kits.

Porsche offers selectively PTS which I went for - but the customization was messy. Porsche builds the car - then removes parts and installs special items, the program imo is odd. Mclaren MSO is similar and had two MSO builds but it offered full carbon cars - no other way to get it.

Tailor Made Atelier - you forget they will do anything, the standard stripes etc are only limited by the customers selection.
Every brand esp benhmark brands offer one offs - less production the higher the price. It's not just Ferrari, you think watch brands jewelry purses clothing isn't the same. Don't over think it - it's just a fun game we play - that's all

 

What's your MSRP guess? Mine is $465k

 

Grok says $428k
I fed EU/US pretax 296GTB/GTS pricing into the model.

 

Recently I think we had similar amounts for prices in EUR and USD, the higher value of EUR being compensated by the fact that typically the EUR price includes the VAT whereas the USD price does not include taxes.
Depending on local VAT in Europe, the base price is apparently between EUR 401K and EUR 415K - but it's unlikely any "bare" configuration will ever be built, so the EUR typical price is probably between 450K and 500K (although there's probably no upper limit).
So a USD price might be in the same bracket (but taxes should then be added).
Regarding potential depreciation, it's about matching the production quantity with the price - at any price, there could be no depreciation if the quantity will be significantly lower than demand; but it'll be the other way round if the production will exceed the demand for that price.

 

Good points. What could they have done had their hearts been more into it? Are we talking about a combination of a little more HP and a little less weight? Or something altogether more inspired?

 

Yes it is

 

Why buying a car you do not love?

 

Uh, you mean, that's not enough for you?

Cuz, really, what else is a car besides it's design and engine (or, as you say, the "internals")?

 

and the gearbox was very different as the Pista rifles through the gears. Almost can’t keep up.

 

So many people have left Porsche in the last couple years including me. I hope NO ONE does business like them, it just ends with loyal enthusiasts leaving the brand. Their ADM game is one nasty thing, almost all of them being $ hungry savages. I learned the hard way recently after spending nice $.

That being said I absolutely love my GM at Ferrari, straight up guy. No ADM bs, just a straight conversation.

 

I think it should be more than just design and engine. My comment wasn't meant to be sarcastic as i do want to understand how people have perceived the cars especially those fortunate enough to have owned the regular and the VS versions. When I'm judging a car for myself, I'm thinking about the handling, braking, engine (including sound) and design . Based on my limited experience of having driven the Pista and 488, what has always stuck to me has been the design of the Pista. It still remains to me as the most beautifully designed rear-engine Ferrari. But that is not the reason alone i would buy it. The engine, revs very fast but its limited by its redline which it hits very quickly. I think the 488 had great brakes (better than the 458). I did not care much for the front end of either the 488, Pista or 458. Experience of revving out the Speciale was exhilarating. Even on driving on the street it felt more responsive than the 458. Speciale felt better dialed in than the 458, more direct front end (better handling), better brakes, more manic engine, it sounded more raw and, also a better design. It was the complete package for me personally. I did not see as much of a difference in the Pista compared to the 488.

My hope for the 296 Speciale is that it is closer to the 458 Speciale than the Pista compared to its "regular" series production car. I like the design of the 296 Speciale over the GTB. I think the handling and steering on the GTB/GTS is already fantastic and so are the brakes so i have no clue how they can even improve on that. I just hope the engine has been made manic and brings the visceral feeling that comes from the engine (not from the outright hp/speed). If so it will be the "complete" package for me.

 

Between increased engine output and reduced weight, Speciale is around 10% more HP/weight ratio than standard 296. Speciale has 20% more downforce which will contribute to better braking and cornering. I recently did the Corsa Pilota class, and in a track setting, better braking and cornering capabilities would be welcomed. Speciale is 2 seconds faster around Fiorano than standard GTB, which is huge in racing terms. So the Speciale is a significant improvement over the standard 296 in terms of what you'd get on a race track.

My Google AI says:
Here's a breakdown of the lap times:

• Ferrari 296 Speciale: 1:19.0
• Ferrari 458 Speciale: 1:23.5
• Ferrari 296 GTB: 1:21.0
• Ferrari 458 Italia: 1:25.0

458's are nice, but the technology in the 296 is 10 years newer.

 

My perspective is skewed as I just got my GTB.

Damn car is already super manic. Makes my F8 feel sleepy.

 

I find it funny that so many people find the AF version too harsh/ stiff and yet the VS version is fine. Buying an AF car pre-owned is the deal vs the VS (not knocking the VS).

Regardless, I love my AF package and for comparison it rides softer than my previously owned GT4RS. I cannot get over how much more car the 296 is over the 4RS which I sold used for $260K.

Also- I don't bottom with the AF package (no lift) and I occasionally do with the 812 GTS.

 

What should the MSRP be? $429-439 with most of the exterior cf included. That would be the smart move because buyers would option the cars into the mid $500s and beyond.

 

I respect what you are saying, but I do not agree. By definition. the steering wheel is there to make the car change direction. Filtering out unwanted noise (this is the term engineers use for steering corruption and kickback) is warranted and desirable. I can not talk about the STO, since I have not driven one (other Huracans were not that impressive though), but one of the most disappointing steering wheel sensations was that of the much lauded and critically acclaimed Elise; slow, heavy and kicking back at your hands with the merest hint of a bump. Now, I do understand that this is a personal preference, but for me that is not how a good steering should be. Holding a wheel that fights you back is not my idea of a good driver's car. The steering wheel should be like a scalpel, allowing you to make minor inputs that translate into meaningful changes of direction, without tiring you with excessive push (some people call that "feedback"). If I am allowed, I always admired the driving style of Alain Prost and Jenson Button. Minimum inputs. maximum outcome. Taking a car by the scruff of its neck always seemed uncivilised and vulgar to me. Just my take on the whole argument, obviously not everyone has to agree with it.

 

Starting from the 296 Challenge base, remove the hybridization and gain 200 kg, then adapt it for the road... the same recipe applied to the Challenge Stradale which starts from the 360 Challenge.

 

The VS have evolved from a "track oriented version" brief to a "more expensive, more exclusive version" brief.
All very good for people looking after exclusivity, but not really interesting for people looking for a track oriented version.
I suspect it's not going to get better anytime soon, because as part of the exclusivity and showing off, the current VS still pretends to be track oriented - so there is no space left for an actually track focussed alternative.
This being said, the technical advances have made cars very multi-purpose, so even without being targetting track use, the regular version or VS are already very competent on track.

 

For me though, this isn’t the car I want. The hybrid makes it better. I can see this being the car some people want, maybe in theory, but not practice. Well integrated hybrid is amazing.

 

There are times when you just want to have some piece and quiet on your ride home. The dual personality of any 296 let's you enjoy it whatever you are in the mood for. Why would I ever want a pure ice ride ever again, at least for a car that could function as a dd??

 

I don't lament my laptop not having a mechanical hard drive. Technology moves forward. If you don't like the hybrid setup, buy something else. Your money, your choice. That is all.

 

When you drive in hybrid - then engine kicks in under acceleration or you choose to tun on engine.
You are engaging a cold engine at high rpm's.
Dealer said the hybrid warns the engine - not sure I buy that.
I like hybrid but prefer it had less weight and hp - however use hybrid most of the time,
Daily 296 SF90 - it's nice not to be heard.

 

With all the conversation on the faults and merits of the 296 VS Hybrid, I thought it might be meaningful to include Dan Neil's WSJ take on the new Porsche 911 Hybrid as an information point. Agree or disagree, he makes his case.


The Porsche 911 Reboot Is Quicker, Faster and More Evolved
The 2025 Porsche 911 Carrera GTS T-Hybrid ushers in a new generation of exotically hybridized, voltage-enhanced engines. Dan Neil says don’t bring the hybrid hate.

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By

Dan Neil
June 5, 2025 at 5:40 pm ET

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The 2025 Porsche 911 Carrera GTS T-Hybrid ($189,145, as tested) debuts the automaker’s high-performance hybrid powertrain, built around a 3.6-liter flat-six engine with an electric turbocharger.PHOTO: PORSCHE
I see a lot of sad faces staring out from Porsche’s monkey house these days. Born of racing and performance, the Stuttgart-based company now makes most of its money slamming together luxury SUVs in places like Bratislava. Having once perfected the shimmering, soul-shaking resonance of a naturally aspirated flat-six engine, Porsche now spends the majority of its R&D budget on electrification. Shhhh.

Change falls particularly hard on the perennial 911 Carrera. Air-cooled, open-throated boxer engines are long gone. The 911 models available with a manual transmission are down to two (the 911 Carrera T and the GT3). Analog gauges, levered hand brakes, hydraulically assisted steering. Porsche is fresh out of those bananas.

With the latest design generation of the 911, Porsche has driven the monkey house into another frenzy. Code-named the 992.2, the reboot ushers in a new generation of exotically hybridized, voltage-enhanced engines/transmissions that will power Porsche from here to full electrification. By the end of the decade, the only 911 may be a hybrid 911. Please sir, put down the poo.

Note: The 911 Carrera base model carries on with a refreshed 3.0-liter twin-turbo flat-six (388 hp). The T-Hybrid spec is currently paired with GTS and GTS 4 models.

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The 2025 redesign of Porsche’s 911 Carrera introduces its first fully digital instrument cluster, a 12.6-inch curved display. A new start button has been positioned to the left of the steering wheel. PHOTO: PORSCHE
I don’t get the hybrid hate. I really don’t. Having spent a few days in a new GTS T-Hybrid ($189,145, as tested), I promise you history’s most complete sports car is only more complete, with generationally evolved roadholding (rear wheel steering, optional electrohydraulic roll stabilization); even more fabulous chassis and tires (matched and staggered Goodyears); and an all-new, discretely electrified 3.6-liter flat-six, capable of all the patter and chatter, chiming and guttering, whispers and wails of any other latter-day Porsche. Behold a more socially responsible hellbeast.

I dig the look. The redesign consolidates all the front lighting functions into the headlamp assemblies. The front corners of the car are dominated by two sets of five vertical shutters, channeling cool air to the radiators when needed.

For some peevish fans, the T-Hybrid signals the End Times: Oh my God, the stop/start system shuts down the engine at intersections. If I want it to be obnoxiously loud I have to press a button (the Active Sport Exhaust). Deal with it, Richie Rich. Other people have to breathe, you know? Try looking at the upside.

More power, for example. The turbo flat-six generates a hairy-chested 478 hp and 420 lb-ft of torque all by its lonesome. Inside the eight-speed PDK transmission housing—coupled directly to the output shaft, actually—an electric motor adds another 53 hp and 110 lb-ft of insta-torque to the propulsion mix. The T-hybrid’s net output stands at 532 hp at 6,500 rpm and 449 lb-ft (2,000-5,500 rpm), pitted against a curb weight of 3,536 pounds—only 110 pounds heavier than the previous GTS.

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The 2025 Porsche 911 Carrera GTS Hybrid (rear-drive) can accelerate from 0-60 mph in 2.9 seconds, traverse the quarter-mile in 11 seconds flat and hit a top speed of 194 mph, according to the company.PHOTO: PORSCHE
Once prodded, the T-Hybrid stampedes like a startled Cape buffalo. One has the sense of a lot of quick-twitch muscle, violently engaged, amid indignant mooing. Porsche says the rear-drive GTS T-Hybrid hits 60 mph in 2.9 seconds and clears the ¼-mile in 11 seconds flat.

In May of last year, Porsche test driver Jörg Bergmeister lapped a GTS T-Hybrid around the Nürburgring Nordschleife in a steaming 07:16.934, shattering the previous model’s record by 8.7 seconds—an eternity in Nürburgring time.

Sounds about right. On an undisclosed stretch of industrial frontage I was able to stretch the T-Hybrid’s legs a bit. With the launch control engaged, the rear tires barely squeak, as every pound-foot sent to the rear axle is neatly converted to wheel rotation. Oof! The car steps off. The nose stays level. Be ready with those paddle shifters; 2nd gear comes up fast. Blink twice and you’re overdue for 3rd gear. Whaa-Bhaa-BHAA, goes the engine, bouncing off the rev limiter.

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You know what hasn’t changed? Consumption. As crazy as it might seem, the T-Hybrid scores virtually the same fuel economy as the previous GTS model. As configured, Porsche’s hybrid system is less focused on reducing carbon emissions than tailpipe pollutants such as nitrogen oxides, particulates, sulfur dioxide and volatile organic compounds. It’s worth noting that in Europe, Asia and the Pacific Rim, it’s not only CO2 but the deadly pall of vehicle pollution over megacities that is motivating higher standards, taxes and penalties.

The following is a rough account of what it will take to keep a 532-hp Porsche 911 street-legal and sanction-free in most of the world for the balance of the decade.

It begins with lambda. Engineers use the 11th Greek letter to denote the ideal, or stoichiometric, air-fuel mixture ratio in the combustion cycle (where lambda equals 1). Transient conditions of load and demand will cause engines to run rich or lean, increasing emissions of hydrocarbons or nitrogen oxides, respectively.

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The redesigned rear lid of the Porsche 911 Carrera GTS T-Hybrid features two sets of five aero strakes, repeating the theme of the active louvers in the lower front grille. PHOTO: PORSCHE
Porsche’s hybrid solution includes a brilliantly cute electric exhaust turbocharger. With an electric motor sandwiched between the compressor and turbine, the e-turbo is able to smoothly spin up or slow down, agilely matching load and demand with the ideal fuel-air mix.

Even cuter: The e-turbo doesn’t have a wastegate to release overpressure; instead, when conditions are right, the integrated motor switches to generator mode, harvesting exhaust-gas energy to return to the battery.

By now all the luxury high-performance brands have worked through their first generation of hybrid powertrains. I think I’ve driven them all. Some are wonderful (McLaren) and some are less so (Ferrari). What distinguishes them is the quality of transparency—the extent to which the hybrid’s machinations require the driver’s attention, intrude on the experience or compromise the driving.

The T-Hybrid system is so thoroughly integrated to the machine, so organic to its operation, so faithful to enthusiast’s expectations of performance, it’s practically undetectable. Hell, it might not even be real, for all I could tell. Hybrid hoax!

What stays with me is how familiar the hybrid 911 feels, even when the technology is utterly transformed.

That will shock the monkeys.

Corrections & Amplifications
A manual transmission is available on two Porsche 911 models, the Carrera T and the GT3, and the new GTS T-Hybrid comes with Goodyear tires. A previous version of this article mistakenly said only one 911 offers a manual transmission, the Carrera T, and that the GTS T-Hybrid has Michelin tires. (Corrected on June 6.)

2025 Porsche 911 Carrera GTS T-Hybrid
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With a system net of 532 hp and 449 lb-ft of torque, Porsche’s 911 Carrera GTS T-Hybrid has a 59-hp and 29-lb-ft advantage over the previous GTS, with an added weight penalty of only 110 pounds.PHOTO: PORSCHE
Base price $164,900

Price, as tested $189,145

Powertrain Gasoline-electric hybrid, with a 3.0 liter DOHC flat-six engine with electric exhaust turbocharger, direct injection and variable valve timing/lift; eight-speed automatic transmission; integrated traction motor (53 hp/110 lb-ft), 1.9-kWh, 400V traction battery; rear wheel drive.

Power/torque 532 hp at 6,500 rpm; 449 lb-ft at 2,000-5,500 rpm

Length/wheelbase/width/height 173.9/96.5/80.0/51.0 inches

Curb weight 3,536 pounds

0-60 mph/1/4-mile elapsed time 2.9 seconds/11 seconds (Porsche)

EPA fuel economy 17/24/20 mpg, city/highway/combined

Cargo volume 4.8/13.1 cubic feet, front trunk/rear cabin

 

I experience this daily. Unfortunately.

 

That is precisely the problem; apart from the 12C, there is nothing else to buy... As for the benefits of hybridization, don't forget that the market is always right... We'll talk about it again when 296 is worth nothing...
And when future generations of hybrids will pile up on the used car market alongside the first generations, the house of cards will collapse... Remember, no dynamic used car market = collapse of the new car market in the medium term, because what’s the point of buying new if there’s no one to buy it afterwards !
People on the second-hand market don't want them, and as time goes by and the astronomical maintenance costs appear, the less they will want them...