296 VS

Regardimg the weight, no not really. Hybrids add weight. The Revuelto is a 2 tonne car, even having a carbon tub.
Regarding the engines, the ZR1's is just larger. Ferraris have a higher specific output (i.e. power per 1000 cc).

 

Ferrari V8’s do not. The little bomb in the 296 does. I’d love to see what 3.5 liters would do a 296 (356?)

 

i was doing the math b/w Pista vs. ZRI just taking into consideration the non-hybrids. Pista is 185 hp/liter vs. ZR1 193.5HP/Liter. Pretty good for a 3.9L pumping out this much 6 years earlier. SF90 with its 4L 769Hp would be around 192.5/Liter...close to ZR1. Once i put this in perspective, i'd say impressive for GM to make this happen.

What i'd like to understand is if its easier to squeeze out similar output/liter from a bigger displacement vs. a smaller displacement. Are there more engineering/mechanical challenges to deal with with a 3.9-4L vs. 5.5L?

Ferrari has said that with the 296VS they are getting to the limits of a RWD with that much power. It will be great to hear once reviews are in on how they both compare relative to being a drivers car.

I've also wondered (with these hp wars b/w the manufacturers) why Ferrari chose to go hybrid vs. increase the capacity of the engine to generate more power. I would think that it would result in less weight and less tech related headaches.

 

Do you really need more power for a road car? Smaller engines aid handling, speed and agility. Less is more.

 

They better make it 346 - 356 doesn't sound quite right for some reason...

 

Actually even the Ferrari V8 does.

SF90 XX: 797 CV, 3990 cc. Specific output of 199.75 CV / Litre.
ΖR1: 1064 BHP / 1079 CV, 5463 cc. Specific output of 197.51 CV / Litre.

CV / PS = Metric HP

 

I sure hope this doesn't mean everything will be AWD in the next generation.

 

Of course the ZR1 is impressive, as is the Z06.
If you take the XX into consideration (best Ferrari V8 vs best GM V8), the Ferrari has a marginally higher specific output. Now considering the age of he Ferrari engine, I would say it is mightily impressive.

 

ZR1 engine by far outperforms SF90 V8 - turbos larger than Bugatti
Ferrari was lazy with XX / VS - found way more hp for F80 and chose not to pass it down.
Crazy if anyone thinks the F80 using 296 engine - this was not planned.
Senna passed everything down 765LT add Mac changed gearing making it even more exciting
SF90M / 296M- expect 100hp over both XX and VS.
200k ZR1 is breaking records on track - as will Porsche GT2RS mid 900hp and Mclaren W1 1258hp

 

The choice of hybrid (vs larger displacement) is first pushed by regulations. However the weight of the batteries is probably easier to manage efficiently, since a larger engine would move the centre of gravity higher.

 

I’m always up for more (non electric) powerful cars

 

admit it, the Zr1 is a total game changer. Fact that its being chatted about here as a viable competitor/ rival to modern Ferraris is amazing. Love it or hate it, the Zr1 has won the game. I am getting a 296 Speciale, but I do truly admire the Zr1.

 

better not to imagine...

 

Agreed. Really something.

 

I'm not so sure about that - engine of ZR1 in some peoples minds is huge and will be placed in a lot of GM cars. Regardless cost / weight / space mfg. etc - doesn't make sense taking in all factors, it's actually a negative net loss effect for the regulations. I think it was to charge more - lots more and we are seeing the results in resale - not knocking it - it is what it is.
The de tuned Puro V12 and tuned 812C 12Ci Monza - all 12 cylinders which Ferrari sent home the engineers while Lambo invested in a new V12.
Chevrolet simply beat everyone, 918 P1 900hp and LaF was 50hp with V12 - amount of cylinders equates to very little performance - if any,
ZR1 is an unlimited as expensive motor parts or more than F80. F80 engineering is impressive and expect that passed down to next generation skipping the current.
I think Ferrari is lazy and resting on things they should not - going back to Enzo and 599GTO similar engine was the right thing to do.

 

A lot to truth here!

 

Compare two examples: a 6 cylinder GT3 has 331 lb-ft of torque. The V12 Competizione has 510 lb-ft of torque. To get that pulling power the motor is not working as hard as the 6 cylinder Porsche. The greater displacement 6.5 liter size for the Ferrari makes it more accomplished than the 4 liter size of the Porsche 6.
The amount of power per liter is a ruse as the larger power figure means the greater stress for that motor. Quite simply the 6 is working harder at the expense of flexibility. All the cars have gotten too big and too heavy for various reasons; while loosing much of their simplicity through this design evolution.

 

Not fair - take rear engine GT2RS vs front engine Comp. which is more than double what you state and If hp increases and track times decrease does size really matter. All I am saying is racing factories which ZR1 and Ferrari are very capable. This isn't the first rodeo for the ZR1 - in the early years Lotus helped design the ZR1 engine to create the worlds fastest production car - I like speed and cars that set records - rich history. XX is fast as is VS but they could have easily been much faster esp at multiples of the price.

 

GT2RS is turbocharged, that's what gives it the huge torque. Before hybrid (which also use turbocharging in most cases), turbocharging was the only alternative to increased displacement in order to get more torque and power. A small high revving engine could provide (peak) power to some extent but would always lack torque (only power actually matters, but torque is what provides mid-range power).

 

I had an SF90. You do NOT need more power in a road car. My 296 GTS is ballistic, but at least somewhat approachable.

 

I respectfully disagree that it’s a game changer. I’ve owned many vettes, including several ZR1’s and even a C8. The talk of ZR1’s being a competitor to Ferrari’s always reaches a similar crescendo, before quickly dying off. In a few months, the Corvette faithful will move on to arguing with one another about whether the Zora is real and if the C9 should have round tail lights. Sure, it’s lots of performance for the money, in the same way track homes offer plenty of space for the money.

At 170,000 units produced so far, Chevy has already built more C8 vettes than Ferrari will build in total production for the next 13 years. They’re not special in the way a Ferrari is. Corvette has always benchmarked cars from a generation ago, and as fast as they are in a straight line, I’ve always found them to feel a bit cheap.

With two Escalade V’s using the Corvette LT4 power plant, I’m not a GM hater. I’ll take my Escalade’s over my Urus, G63 and Purosangue. They’re the loudest and best sounding vehicles I own. But, I wouldn’t dream of replacing any of my mid engine Ferrari’s with a C8 ZR1. Of course, I recognize others may feel completely different about them.

 

Why do you like the Escalade over the Urus? Loudest and best sounding???

 

Have EscaladeV G63Squared & GL63 - V scares people / animals which is not a good thing. Ridiculously obnoxious and goes like hell, offers more room drivers aids.
Had Bentayga and URUS is similar - most uncomfortable door openings - way too low, Stepping up to get I and bending down to avoid hitting your head - just dumb!

ZR1 while not a Ferrari is not really the point of building a track focussed car drivers car.
Hybrid on track - there is a reason 296CH isn't hybrid.
Partial to the Corvette - originally built in my town.
The Viper was the Vette competitor - don't forget for 150k it was made with a ton of carbon and a sister company to Ferrari. Strongly dislike comparing prices and production - car companies were meant to compete - Ford vs Ferrari did not go well for Ferrari.

 

Urus is a terrific SUV, but it’s not the most comfortable vehicle and even lacks storage space for a modern cell phone. The Escalade V has considerably more room, has a more comfortable ride and is alarmingly loud at cold start…with crackles and burbles in all the right ways. Obviously it’s nowhere near as nimble as the Urus, but ironically, both get about the same gas mileage. FWIW, the Purosangue fit and finish is a level above both. It truly is more of a luxury experience, but it doesn’t sound nearly as good as the other two.

 

If that were to happen, then it's good for us 296 owners, as 296 will be the "last RWD mid engine Ferrari"