car design thread | Page 779 | FerrariChat

car design thread

Discussion in 'Creative Arts' started by jm2, Oct 19, 2012.

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  1. jm2

    jm2 F1 World Champ
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    And then there was the Saturn debacle : https://driventowrite.com/2025/06/11/never-a-dull-moment-ch-16/#more-128306


    Driven to Write

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    Never a Dull Moment — Part 16
    Over promise/ Under deliver?

    Source: Logos-world

    " data-medium-file="https://driventowrite.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/06/Saturn-Logo-300x169.png" data-large-file="https://driventowrite.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/06/Saturn-Logo.png" class="size-full wp-image-128518" src="https://driventowrite.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/06/Saturn-Logo.png" alt="" width="740" height="416" srcset="https://driventowrite.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/06/Saturn-Logo.png 740w, https://driventowrite.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/06/Saturn-Logo-300x169.png 300w, https://driventowrite.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/06/Saturn-Logo-150x84.png 150w, https://driventowrite.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/06/Saturn-Logo-623x350.png 623w" sizes="(max-width: 709px) 85vw, (max-width: 909px) 67vw, (max-width: 984px) 61vw, (max-width: 1362px) 45vw, 600px" style="-x-ignore: 1">
    Source: Logos-world
    1985 would prove to be a pivotal year for Cadillac, GeneralMotors and myself. GM had completed the purchase of Electronic Data Systems, completely reorganized the entire company and was to embark on the creation of a new division, Saturn, which would be the first new car division from GM since 1918. After the disastrous experiences of the Corvair, Vega and the X Bodies, the engineering and design organizations had proposed a radical rethinking of the small car segment.

    Roger Smith, new to the Chairman role since 1982, embraced the vision to create a new product that would demonstrate to the world that GM could build a better small car than the Japanese for less money. He promised a revolutionary change from anything going on anywhere in auto manufacturing at that time.

    Talk about tall promises.

    Magazine cover found on Reddit

    " data-medium-file="https://driventowrite.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/06/0aqpdkbm8of11.jpg-274x300.webp" data-large-file="https://driventowrite.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/06/0aqpdkbm8of11.jpg.webp" class="size-full wp-image-128324" src="https://driventowrite.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/06/0aqpdkbm8of11.jpg.webp" alt="" width="499" height="547" srcset="https://driventowrite.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/06/0aqpdkbm8of11.jpg.webp 499w, https://driventowrite.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/06/0aqpdkbm8of11.jpg-274x300.webp 274w, https://driventowrite.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/06/0aqpdkbm8of11.jpg-137x150.webp 137w, https://driventowrite.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/06/0aqpdkbm8of11.jpg-319x350.webp 319w" sizes="(max-width: 499px) 85vw, 499px" style="-x-ignore: 1">
    Magazine cover found on Reddit
    The bold promises would leave many observers with the expectation of nothing less than flying cars or more. What the world was expecting and what GM would ultimately deliver were not going to be remotely close. It was to be a popular ‘non haggle buying experience’ coupled with a revolutionary manufacturing process. A clean sheet of paper opportunity.

    The goal was to entice buyers of Toyotas, Nissans and Hondas to leave their brands and consider General Motors products. An innovative plastic, no rust body, with a unique low cost, lost foam casting process for the engine which would be a technological leap towards the future.

    The Pontiac Fiero had previously established the plastic body panel construction. No one seemed to mind the very large panel gaps. The plan would entail “a different kind of car company” with a then novel way of purchasing the vehicle with a one set price, no haggle experience. Buyers would welcome the non confrontational purchase plan.

    While my area of expertise has been design related, I knew from experience several truths that I had gleaned over the years. Never change the factory, the workforce and the product all at the same time. Change one or two but not all three simultaneously. Sure enough, Saturn would be an all new product, built in a new plant in Spring Hill ,Tennessee with an all new work force. What could possibly go wrong?

    In my own tiny world within the Cadillac Studio, Cadillac Division was getting ready to finally launch the newly downsized Eldorado/Seville. Gasoline hadn’t become as expensive nor as scarce as had been anticipated and the buying public would not embrace the new ‘small’ Cadillacs. Period. More dark clouds for Cadillac.

    GM Photographic

    " data-medium-file="https://driventowrite.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/06/Screenshot-2025-06-01-at-9.47.21 AM-300x169.png" data-large-file="https://driventowrite.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/06/Screenshot-2025-06-01-at-9.47.21 AM-1024x578.png" class="size-full wp-image-128328" src="https://driventowrite.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/06/Screenshot-2025-06-01-at-9.47.21%E2%80%AFAM-e1748958065780.png" alt="" width="748" height="423" style="-x-ignore: 1">
    GM Photographic
    While GM had announced the existence of a new car called the Saturn project in 1982; Roger Smith made the official announcement incorporating the new Saturn Division in 1985. At the Design Center, preliminary work had been completed in the Advanced Studios for a proposed Saturn vehicle and once the official announcement had been made, Design Center management realized a separate Saturn Studio would be a necessity and named Kip Wasenko as the Chief Designer.

    GM Photographic

    " data-medium-file="https://driventowrite.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/06/Screenshot-2025-06-01-at-9.47.00 AM-300x169.png" data-large-file="https://driventowrite.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/06/Screenshot-2025-06-01-at-9.47.00 AM-1024x578.png" class="size-full wp-image-128329" src="https://driventowrite.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/06/Screenshot-2025-06-01-at-9.47.00%E2%80%AFAM-e1748958055447.png" alt="" width="700" height="395" style="-x-ignore: 1">
    GM Photographic
    Interestingly, the decision was made to keep the Saturn Studio completely separate from the rest of the organization; still in the same building, but with no access for anyone else at the Design Center. The plan was to assemble an elite team working independently from the rest of the studios; with only the VP Design, Irv Rybicki and the Director of Design, Chuck Jordan granted access. This would prove to be problematic going forward as it would alienate just about everyone. To complicate matters, Irv Rybicki was due to retire in Oct. 1986, and an organizational change during this tumultuous period would just add more confusion along with additional political intrigue. Musical chairs once again.

    GM Photographic

    " data-medium-file="https://driventowrite.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/06/Screenshot-2025-06-01-at-9.46.10 AM-300x169.png" data-large-file="https://driventowrite.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/06/Screenshot-2025-06-01-at-9.46.10 AM-1024x578.png" class="size-full wp-image-128330" src="https://driventowrite.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/06/Screenshot-2025-06-01-at-9.46.10%E2%80%AFAM-e1748958042839.png" alt="" width="760" height="429" style="-x-ignore: 1">
    GM Photographic
    Out of the blue I received a call from Kip asking if I might be interested in becoming his Assistant Chief Designer for Saturn Exteriors. After six years in Cadillac with the Cimarron, the Allante’, the ‘C’ Body cars and the recent Eldorado and Seville, I believed a change in venue would be beneficial. I thought I had accomplished all I could in Cadillac, which was to say, not a whole lot. I wasn’t able to affect the changes I believed needed to be made.

    The opportunity to create a new car, from a new division with no heritage nor background or baggage was appealing to say the least. Here was a chance to start with a clean piece of paper and a chance to compete with the Japanese and change the perception of General Motors. History favored the bold, and the door of opportunity would only be open once as far as I knew.

    GM Photographic

    " data-medium-file="https://driventowrite.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/06/Screenshot-2025-06-01-at-9.45.52 AM-300x169.png" data-large-file="https://driventowrite.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/06/Screenshot-2025-06-01-at-9.45.52 AM-1024x578.png" class="size-full wp-image-128331" src="https://driventowrite.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/06/Screenshot-2025-06-01-at-9.45.52%E2%80%AFAM-e1748958032305.png" alt="" width="740" height="418" style="-x-ignore: 1">
    GM Photographic
    I accepted the challenge and was eagerly anticipating a new beginning. There would be two designers answering to me, Norm Selnes and Dan Magda, both super talents. In a then novel approach for GM Design, there would be the interior and exterior clay in one studio, side by side. Jon Albert would be the Assistant Chief Interior designer with Carolyn Peters as his team member. In addition, a selection of the best clay sculptors in the building along with the top supporting studio engineers would round out our team. Many in the building showed some resentment and in some cases hostility towards the ‘special’ Saturn Studio. We had been labeled as elites and no one was allowed access to our studio including design management from our sister divisions.

    Chevrolet Division as well questioned why the corporation was diverting much needed funds for what they deemed an experiment, when their mission was to reach first time buyers. The work that had been done in the Advanced Studios had been shown briefly to the public, but we were instructed to build on that work and deliver stellar, no compromise designs.

    GM Photographic

    " data-medium-file="https://driventowrite.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/06/Screenshot-2025-06-01-at-12.22.52 PM-300x121.png" data-large-file="https://driventowrite.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/06/Screenshot-2025-06-01-at-12.22.52 PM-1024x412.png" class="size-full wp-image-128327" src="https://driventowrite.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/06/Screenshot-2025-06-01-at-12.22.52%E2%80%AFPM-e1748958077339.png" alt="" width="684" height="276" style="-x-ignore: 1">
    GM Photographic
    The pressure to deliver on the promises made by Roger Smith to the world was palpable. Flying cars indeed. Both Irv and Chuck had a great deal at stake in that their personal reputations as well as the Design Staff’s standing would be put to the test.

    If I thought the Cadillac challenge had been a test of my mettle, I was about to find out the meaning of “they’re out on the battlefield bayoneting the wounded!”
     
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  2. jm2

    jm2 F1 World Champ
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    This weekend in SE Michigan:

    1. OPINION
    Car Design As A Captivating Two-Dimensional Artform


    Detroit’s Eyes on Design show this weekend will include original automotive renderings from 1930 through 2000.

    BY DAVE RANDPUBLISHED: JUN 9, 2025
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    FORD
    An image can be a powerful influence.

    Go to any art museum and you’ll witness what artist have known for centuries—that a two-dimensional image can captivate a viewer. It can engage by the skill of the artist who is a master of their technique, or by color and composition that invites a closer look.

    It can make a statement, present a point of view, drive controversy, and even offend. Regardless of the medium, art has always had the capacity to provoke a strong emotional response.

    Automotive designers have known this as well. Since the beginning of the profession, designers have used the image as the start of the process that eventually leads to a production vehicle.

    Image Unavailable, Please Login Detroit’s New Industrial Exhibit Honors Design
    That process will generally start with thought sketches—loose, quickly done with pencil (or currently in CAD). They’re the equivalent of a mathematician using equations to work out a problem. In this case it's the designer working it out through visual thinking.

    These types of sketches may never be presented for review. They tend to be private explorations or studies—just as an artist may do initial studies before committing to the final canvas.

    It’s with the more finished renderings that the designer is truly trying to develop an image that, in design-speak “jumps off the wall.”

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    CHRYSLER
    Beautifully rendered Plymouth proposal by John R. Samson in 1960 used airbrush and pastel.
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    How this exactly is done has changed over the years as new artforms and techniques have developed.

    In the ‘30s designers used pastels, colored pencil, and gouache on colored paper to visually “pull” the forms of the car from the paper with the use of additional color and highlights—a technique used up through the ‘60s.

    Around this time designers began to work on vellum, a translucent material that allowed the designer additional control in gradation by the ability of working both sides of the paper, as did the increased use of colored markers.

    Appreciative collectors recognize the value of this work and search it out for their collections.
    Designers have always attempted to render automotive materials such as painted surfaces, glass, and chrome as accurately as possible. Compared to work done in the ‘30s and ‘40s, the new mediums influenced the style of rendering, with hard reflections now being used to depict the forms.

    This technique would remain popular through the ‘90s, when the advent of CAD revolutionized the entire industry, as well as how designers “drew” cars.

    Regardless of period, designers then and now used dramatic perspective and exaggerated proportions, all in an effort to instill an emotional component to the image.

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    BRETT SNYDER COLLECTION
    Arthur Ross’ dramatic Buick done in 1940 employed airbrush and pastel.
    Why do designers put so much effort into these renderings? For some it’s a matter of personal pride in creating a great piece. Every designer puts a little bit of themselves up on the wall during a sketch review.

    And every designer wants their design to be chosen, a compelling rendering can help “sell” the design, even if at times that rendering may be better than the design it depicts. It happens.

    Perhaps most importantly a rendering can help focus the entire development team in what they’re trying to achieve. Engineering specifications and marketing input by themselves can’t create the promise of what the end goal might look like. But a single image can.

    Image Unavailable, Please Login How This Automotive Career Pulled Me In
    The art world has never had much respect for automotive designers, despite embracing automotive design. Some institutions like New York’s Museum of Modern Art have their own collection of classic vehicles.

    But things may be changing. The Detroit Institute of Arts has established a specific curator for Automotive, Industrial, and Decorative Arts and has begun a collection of automotive renderings.

    In addition, there is a small group of appreciative collectors who recognize the value of this work and search it out for their private collections.

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    BRETT SNYDER COLLECTION
    Paul A. Meyer’s proposal for LaSalle, done in 1937 with colored pencil and pastel on paper.
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    But remember that for the designer this work was simply part of the process of design, a means to an end. The work was never envisioned to be more than a method to express a design idea, or a way to more precisely define how a detail should be executed.

    So, it’s with some degree of satisfaction that those designers, who had the talent and skill to produce some of the most outstanding examples of automotive design artwork, are finally being recognized and valued by others outside of the design community.

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    BRETT SNYDER COLLECTION
    John Gable’s Eldorado proposal done in 1975 utilizes the hard reflection style popular at the time.
    And if you happen to be in the Detroit area this Sunday, June 15, try to attend Eyes on Design, an automotive show that was initiated by and continues to be supported by the design community.

    This year will include a gallery of original automotive renderings from 1930 through 2000, and seeing this work in person will speak more eloquently about it than anything I could say here.
     
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  3. jm2

    jm2 F1 World Champ
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  4. F1tommy

    F1tommy F1 World Champ
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    Not cars but car company related.


    “A year after we opened Michigan Central Station to the world, our vision to create a global innovation hub and a destination symbolizing Detroit’s future is well underway,” says Bill Ford. “Together with NoMad and Hilton, we are now announcing the next phase of our ambitious vision.”
    The new NoMad Detroit hotel, opening in 2027, will occupy the top five floors of The Station and will include a signature restaurant, bar and health and wellness amenities.
    “This new renovation of The Station brings together iconic American companies like Ford and Hilton at a location that's truly a historic hub for U.S. travel,” said Josh Sirefman, CEO of Michigan Central. “We love the notion of two 100-plus-year-old companies collaborating to create a venue that promises to be a major boost not only for Michigan Central but for the city of Detroit as well.”
    The addition of a hotel will enhance Michigan Central’s 30-acre technology and cultural hub, the second fastest-growing startup ecosystem in the world.

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  5. of2worlds

    of2worlds F1 World Champ
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  6. jm2

    jm2 F1 World Champ
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  7. jm2

    jm2 F1 World Champ
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  8. jm2

    jm2 F1 World Champ
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  9. of2worlds

    of2worlds F1 World Champ
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    Indeed that is the word that comes to mind. Something for everyone there, thank you for the tour!
     
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  10. F1tommy

    F1tommy F1 World Champ
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    Interesting collection of cars. Thanks for the pics John.
     
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  11. F1tommy

    F1tommy F1 World Champ
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    Found a few pictures of the F80 and 499P. The 499P really makes the F80 look good. This is at Lemans, with Ferrari and the 499P attaining the triple crown of three 24 Lemans Victories in a row.:)


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  12. jm2

    jm2 F1 World Champ
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    I’ve never been much of a fan of red + yellow livery.
     
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  13. F1tommy

    F1tommy F1 World Champ
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    They tried to copy the 1973 Ferrari 312PB yellow/red colors, a mistake I think.
     
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  14. Schultz

    Schultz Karting

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    Petersen automotive museum has really upped their quality and volume this year...!
     
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  15. TheMayor

    TheMayor Ten Time F1 World Champ
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    Vegas baby
  16. energy88

    energy88 Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Oh, those tail fins!

    I remember back in the day (late 1950s) near the tail fin height zenith, seeing an article in Popular Science or Mechanics Illustrated discussing how the tail fins were obscuring drivers' rear vision and that the solution would be windows in the fins for the driver to see thru them. There was an illustration, but even the internet can't find it anymore.
     

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