This isn't the Sir Lewis Hamilton thread, perhaps you should start one? You seem to be the only one on Fchat who gives a flying **** about whether he is Lewis or Sir.
Because he is a better driver and is likely to break all of Lewis’ records. If Max gets with Mercedes and they give him a decent car lookout. Only thing that will stop him is if he gets bored of F1.
Simple fact, Lewis is past his prime. And he hasn't gotten his 8th WDC and probably never will. Both he and Michael won seven each...and it is now just old news and nobody really cares. It took long enough to beat Fangio's record of 5. Senna had three, Jackie Stewart had three, Lauda had three, Prost had four. I don't think Michael or Lewis were better drivers than any of those, circumstances just worked out for them.
Genuine question, having followed this and other F1 threads for a while, can someone explain to me the level and intensity of the hatred towards (Sir) Lewis Hamilton here? It's quite striking how many people, who I presume are knowledgeable about motor sport in general and F1 in particular, go way beyond the usual back-and-forth about who drives well, which driver they prefer, what the team should be doing differently etc, into a space that seems to reveal much deeper animosity towards an incredible driver who has done so much for the sport and is trying to do his best for his team. Is this particular to Ferrari "fans", or maybe just this forum? Maybe there are other Ferrari/F1 chats that are more balanced and informed (if so, please let me know, I would love to read those). There appears to be a real anger directed at Ferrari in general but really crystalized around LH, to the extent that many have said they actively don't want LH to do well, that they would hate it if he won or if he secured a Championship for Ferrari. That's a deep level of (self)hatred that you would rather see your team lose if that meant LH won. I completely get preferring one driver over another, not liking certain drivers, of course. But the discourse here often goes way beyond that. People claiming it was "a black day when Ferrari hired Lewis". Hhmmm. And then many others agreeing. Just to note a few points, worth reflecting upon: Many argued that Carlos Sainz was clearly a better driver than LH, why replace Sainz with a worse driver? Have you seen where Sainz is in the driver's Championship compared to Albon and the size of the gap? "Well, Sainz has been unlucky and besides it always takes a driver a while to adapt to a new team, especially if they're up against a driver who has been with that team for a while." [Agreed, but why not judge LH by the same criteria?]. As it happens I think Sainz is a very good driver and was unlucky to lose his Ferrari seat, but such is the brutality of F1. Look at the relative performance of all teammates at this half way stage. If you exclude McLaren, who are flying at the top and Alpine whose car appears to be a piece of crap and who have effectively given up on 2025 to concentrate on '26, Ferrari is the only team with two drivers next to each other in the Championship. The gap between CL and LH is significant but not massive. LH is clearly not "blowing CL out of the water", but no serious commentator thought that would be so. A fairer assessment is that LH is doing well, adjusting to the dynamics of a car that BOTH DRIVERS say is unpredictable and LH is working his way though those problems, race by race. I find what LH says, if you care to listen closely, fascinating about his struggles with the car, what he means by that and the technical aspects of how he's adapting his driving methods. All great athletes, if they have a long career, adjust towards the end. I find this process really interesting, others here dismiss that as "excuses". The other attack/dismissal is that either LH was a good/okay but not great driver and now he's rubbish/useless/terrible or that he was never that good and got lucky for a few years (over a decade!). This is where the level of hatred shows itself more fully - touch of the Bernie Ecclestone disdain for "the boy Lewis" comes through. Just a few reference points, separate from the tiresome and I think stupid debates about who is "the greatest of all time". If you have forgotten or don't know, go and look at what LH did in his first year of F1, the performances he put in, the teammate he beat in his rookie year, and how close he came to winning the F1 championship in 2007. Look at the quality of drivers in that era. Look at what he then achieved in his SECOND year as an F1 driver. Look at how many people doubted him then and what he did, straight away. Look at how this year's incredible generation of rookie drivers have all struggled in different ways. LH's first years in F1 were sensational. A truly "generational talent" that changed F1. I am lucky enough to know a few race car drivers, and when I ask them about all the current F1 drivers, nearly all say the same thing, about who is a "cut above the rest". Same answer time and again: Verstappen, Alonso and Hamilton. The idea that LH isn't really good and he just got lucky with a good team on a streak shows little understanding of F1, how it works and how you get a "top seat" and keep it. Each and every multi-year winner gets that seat, develops that team and beats out their teammate because they are the best in that period and can handle the pressure year after year [lots of one year champions who were very good but not great] - Vettel's run, Verstappen's run, Schumacher's run, and yes, Hamilton's too. Each "got lucky" by being the best driver in that moment with the best car and out-driving everyone, including brilliant teammates. Jordan "lucky" to be playing in that Bulls team, Messi "lucky" to be playing for Barcelona, Pele "lucky" to be playing for Brazil, etc. Last point, the idea about LH's legacy being "tarnished". As said, some think he has "no legacy", he's "lucky and undeserving", any driver could have done the same in the same car etc. I'll ignore that argument, as it's an absurd position with no merit. To those who begrudgingly can overcome their prejudice against LH and admit, yes, he's a good driver, maybe very good, and possibly great but his performances this year and over the past few seasons means he can no longer be regarded as a great/very good driver I'd simply say this. What would you say to someone who says, "Michael Schumacher wasn't a great driver. He last few years with Mercedes showed that he just got lucky by being in the right place at the right time and his Ferrari streak of wins should be seen in light of what he didn't achieve when he went to Mercedes with the specific goal of helping them rebuild a winning team... and he failed." I am guessing, most would think that person was an idiot who didn't understand F1, what it takes to be not just an f1 Champion but a winner across different teams in different decades. Simple suggestion: if you do look down upon and dismiss Schumacher and Hamilton, you are at least being consistent. If you reflexively, without thinking it though, would defend MS and are attacking LH, probably worth at least a few seconds reflection on that contradiction. It's interesting, MS was about the same age when he joined Mercedes as LH is now, maybe a year older? Those seasons did not go well, Mercedes made some progress but not a lot. In his last season MS finished about 13th I think, his teammate none other than Nico Rosberg out drove him, even Hulkenberg finished above MS by the end of the season in a Force India car! LH then joins the next season. He does not join an already "winning team", far from it. At that point LH takes a gamble, leaving the storied McLaren for a team that had not won an f1 championship for over half a century! [admitted they stopped competing for most of that]. They don't win the next season. LH and Mercedes turn that hybrid era car into championships, for both of them. Just as all the greats before them. Maybe LH's time at Ferrari will end like MS's at Mercedes. It seems some here actively want that to happen, which is most sad and most odd. When hating an individual takes over from supporting your own team a little self-reflection is needed. And it would be good, occasionally, to read some informed critiques that are balanced and informed about the Hamilton era at Ferrari. Would be great if those with genuine knowledge would share their takes, positive and negative, or if there are other places for that, please share. I'd love to read and learn. Thank you.
I can't speak to those that show "hatred" towards Lewis Hamilton but you make some comparisons between Lewis Hamilton and Michael Schumacher. During the years that both won their WDC titles, Michael Schumacher was 21 races LESS THAN Lewis Hamiltons era of winning his WDC titles hence why Lewis Hamilton has over 100 race wins. So comparing races-per-year won and both achieving WDC titles is quite different. The BIG ACHIEVEMENT that everyone likes to claim about Lewis Hamilton is he has over 100 podium wins while Michael Schumacher has 90-something podium wins THEREFORE Lewis Hamilton is greater than Michael Schumacher. Now some of us here, to include some veteran FChatters, know that in the Lewis Hamilton era of F1 he had more races-per-year than Michael Schumacher. You either add 21 race wins to Michael Schumachers 90+ race wins to equal Lewis Hamilton era OR you deduct 21 races wins from Lewis Hamilton 100+ race wins to equal Michael Schumachers era. That's IF you want to make that comparison. Now, percentage-to-wins in a season is also a good indicator as to how a driver dominates on the track. Michael Schumacher has a percentage-to-wins of 72% in one season. Lewis Hamilton has a percentage-to-wins of 64% in one season. Max Verstappen has a percentage-to-wins of 83% or 86% in one season which is the highest in F1 history....and he did that at age 25 or 26. Max Verstappen is only 27yo with 4WDC titles under his belt and has broken many records in 2023....and he still has time on his hands to break even more records....and quite possibly with not just 1 team since it's rumored he is moving to MercedesAMGF1 in 2026. (highly stress it's just a rumor at this point) I guess it all depends on your level of tolerance with some FChatters on this forum. I know of one FChatter whom absolutely hates Alonso but most of us here have built up a tolerance towards his hatred towards Alonso. He doesn't constantly bash Alonso when he's talked about but we know his level of hatred towards him. So just like Lewis Hamilton some detest him and a few admire him and will defend him till there is no end...we know who they are. Then there's the ones that like him but don't always defend him and "keep a low profile." It makes no difference to me really. Lewis Hamilton is 40yo and he is on the decline cycle of an F1 driver....just like those in his past that turn 40yo. Now, if you were to compare tenacity and fervor on the track between Lewis Hamilton(40yo) and Fernando Alonso(43yo)....I myself lean a little more towards Fernando Alonso than Lewis Hamilton even though Alonso doesn't have the amount of race wins or titles like Lewis Hamilton because that's Alonso's fault IF you've been following F1 for some time when Alonso started in Minardi in 2001. Anyways, that's my synopsis of what I have seen here on FChat. I'm more about numbers and stats as that's how I grade an F1 driver. These DTS(Drive To Survive) fans that just watch F1 because of Lewis Hamilton.....well, I'll let them make their claims and then I chime in with stats and numbers and the conversation pretty much goes quiet from there. That's F1.
That thread of Max was started by myself back in 2014, way before you were an F1 fan. The thread is still going strong after 11 years. Let's see where Lewis's thread is after a decade.
I also can't speak for those that have a true hatred for Lewis Hamilton. I can't say I like Lewis Hamilton. As a person outside of F1, I do not support his virtue signalling and politics that he forces everyone within F1 to endure. Does that change my opinion of him as a race car driver? No. I will be the first to admit that he is a very good driver. However I think he is overrated, perhaps massively overrated. I can compare to Lebron James. Maybe that relates as I see you are from LA. Tremendously talented no doubt in terms of athleticism. Statistically incredible, but IMO he is very overrated and far from the best of all time. However people get brain washed into believing what others tell them. When the NBA and the media push the narrative that he's the best out there the fans believe it and it sells tickets and shoes and gets views and engagement because it gets talked about. However it doesn't make it true. It's not all that different than all these kids claiming Senna is the greatest of all time. They have no basis other than someone told them that's the case. Some people will make claim to a driver being the greatest simply by where they were born. You may avoid the lucky legacy topic, but I think you're avoiding some truth. Without a doubt Lewis Hamilton has had one of the most privileged careers in F1. You mention his first 2 seasons. What rookie gets gifted with the best car in F1? What other rookie gets equal or preferred status over the 2x defending champion? Since he joined F1, he has some how been fortunate enough to drive the best car at some point during nearly every season he's been in F1. That's simply unbelievable. The fact LH has enjoyed some of the most dominant cars in history is what crumbles his "legacy" or simply shines light that he wouldn't be as successful if it wasn't for the car's he has driven. To me, when a driver is put on a pedestal, especially if it is undeserving to a degree, I hold them to a standard that reflects what the masses claim. If Lewis is supposedly a generational talent or even the GOAT, then that's the standard he should perform at. Even though I never believed that greatness, I will gladly jump into a conversation that points out he's not as great as the masses claimed. I also do not buy into the age thing. Alonso is debunking that, though he's very rare specimen. It's not like a runner who's old body simply cannot run as fast. The mind can still be very sharp, in fact it can get even sharper with age. Michael Jordan said his sharpness for basketball was at the highest when he retired in 2003, he just didn't have the body anymore. Sure reflexes can diminish with age. But you wont go from being the best driver to average in the course of 1 or 2 seasons. The biggest thing to go would likely be the fire inside. The drive to win.
I'm not sure WHAT thread this goes in... but MY prognostication is lewie, max or norris are nothing but a side show next year. Its all about what team gets the regulation right. I feel any top 6 driver can sweep it if they have a car that punches above the collective. I'm a huge Chuck fan, but I think max can beat anyone in a sub standard car. I think Chuck in equal machinery wins. My second would be Oscar, hes what we in the Military would call.... Chilly.
If you go back and really read thru all the threads from start to finish you’ll get the answers to all your listed points. Pretty much everyone here has already explained their individual stance on the matter numerous times. At the end of the day it’s just a sport and they are athletes. Rivalries exist, there are heroes and there are villains. Everyone has their own opinions. Don’t read into it too much and stop looking for “hate” as if to find some moral justification for your particular stance. You cheer your guy and other people cheer theirs. Ball busting is just part of sports and IMO what makes it fun. P.S. you also might want to edit that post and add some paragraph breaks P.P.S LeBron James suuuuuuucks!!!!
I guess it was inevitable that this would devolve into yet another “stop picking on poor Sir!” thread……..
Max's presence here is not even in the same ball park as Sir Lewis Hamilton's. In fact Max is no where near him as a public figure. 2014? Try another trolling tactic bro. I've been watching for way longer than that.
Since this is a thread about "Hamilton at Ferrari era", I make abstraction of his previous career driving Mercedes. So far, I don't see the Ferrari-Hamilton association being successful. Nothing wrong in pointing that out. Apart from a win in the Chinese sprint race, there is nothing to show for it. Hamilton is thoroughly dominated by Leclerc who had 4 podiums so far, and is ahead in the points at half season. The pipe dream of an 8th championship is fading away. How could John Elkann ever imagine it was possible ? It's difficult to see what Ferrari gained from recruiting him; they even lost some credibility in this affair, IMO.
