Correct specs and configuration for Daytona lights and tail lights?

Hi All,

I am wondering if there is a resource (including one of you?) where I could learn about what set ups and configurations of front/side "wrap around" lamps and tail lights were correct for the 365 GTB/4?

For example, I have seen -
-all orange curved turn lights in the front with double red tail lights.
-clear/orange in the front with orange and red tail lights (with orange on both inside and outside)
-all orange in the front with red and orange in the back (both ways again...)
etc etc.. basically every combo you could imagine.

I am sure there are differences by country and region, as well as owners doing their own custom setups somewhere along the way.

I am just curious to learn, generally speaking, what was correct for what market when the cars were new. I have tried Fchat and google searches, as well as my Keith Bluemel books, but to no avail.

Thanks!
Dave

 

this all depends on the first country it was delivered

 

Hi Dave,

Might want to watch this "oldie but goodie"...



Plexi-vintage, in-factory shots of Daytonas. (note my personal favorite detail; the rectangular washer-fluid bag... )

If I recall right, your car was Italian delivery. If that is so, then my opinion is that it likely had clear front sections to the nose side-lenses, and horses on the reflector lenses.

(Again my opinion) at the rear likely amber outers, and the red inners would have a round reflector in the middle.

 

Hear is another one for the collective experts: has anyone ever seen a rear lens pod (the black holder with the chrome ring on it) that was (1) well-evidenced to be factory original, and (2) not made of plastic?

 

... not to mention any number of potential special requests or manufacturing/supplier changes/features that could've influence all this.

After 2+ decades of fairly extensive documentation, research studies & work on numerous Daytonas, I'm still learning new stuff about them almost daily and generally do not consider myself an "expert" on them, but have learned enough to know better than to make any definitive, including "always" or "never", claims regarding how each or all were assembled/made/manufactured.

I've also learned that most or perhaps all books & other reference literature, including those published by Ferrari, seem to have huge range of contradictions to what I (& others) have discovered in actual cars.
I believe the only reasonably good answers to any questions like @davemqv has proposed is to try accessing all factory design, engineering, production archives and find/follow up any & all related documentation throughout the entire production timeline.
Anything less will be just conjecture & guessing.

 

Again, while not claiming to be an "expert", I can't recall ever seeing or working on Daytona taillight base bezels that were made of plastic.
All I've seen or worked on have been die-cast light alloy of some sort.

 

Timo is correct, the base bezels are zamak. The only 'plastic' ones, are the fibreglass replicas we made.

 

That is an interesting assertion.

Certainly the C4 and similar models had housings made out of something like that, but I’ve bought a number of claimed to be original housings over the years, and have yet to receive a metal one. Also, all the reproductions that one can get are plastic.

My car had plastic ones that date from the early 80s, so plastic ones have been around for a long time…

I would expect a cast zamak part to have some sort of manufacture’s marks cast into them. Any chance you know what these markings are?

 

Well I am assuming that Dave is just wondering is most likely to be how his car left the factory.

He is lucky in that it is a plexi, the version for which there are the most in-period photos of.

Obviously, there is no way to know 1,000% how a particular car left the factory, but it is not that hard to figure-out what the most likely candidate is if (as turbo-joe points out) you know the country/market that a car was built for.

What I outlined is the most likely for an Italy-bound car (I’ve researched that a lot, because that is what my car was).

If Dave’s car was built for a different country, then he should ignore what I said…

 

You know what, it was just pointed out to me that I had the OP confused with another "Dave"; so please ignore everything I've said about "Dave's car"...

If the OP's question is just about "all different configs", that is a much bigger question that you take a lot of typing/research to answer...

 

Sadly, Dave is not a Daytona owner yet. Despite wanting one for years, I very sadly remain further down the Ferrari food chain! :/ Although any Ferrari is a good Ferrari in my book.

But I am very much a fan of the car and I like learning about things I love. You're right that I am mostly wondering in general terms what was correct for what market, when new.

It seems to me from my research like all orange in the front and red in the back was mostly a US/Canada spec? But maybe clear/orange in the front on plexi cars for those markets?

Clear/orange in the front and some combination of red and orange tail lights seems to mostly have been for Euro markets?

Thank you everyone for your comments and links. And Timo, while you may not consider yourself an expert and I admire your humility, I think the rest of us certainly do think of you as an expert!

 

Hi (correct) Dave...

There were no Plexi cars for the US market. The Road and Track test of an early Plexi was not of a factory-spec US-market car.

US (not sure if Canada was the same) cars likely were supposed to be all amber with no horse logo on the reflectors at the front, and all red with no reflectors in the stop/brake lenses at the rear. There were regulatory reasons for this config.

It is possible that late production US cars reverted to amber blinkers at the rear (on the outsides), but it is hard to know for sure, because in-period photos of that vintage of car are hard to come by (I've never seen one of the rear of such a car). Still all amber and no horse logos on the front reflectors though, and no reflectors in the rear stop/brake lenses. The reason that they might have changed to amber blinker lenses at the rear was because amber did actually comply with the regulations; I remember coming to some conclusion as to why initially amber was questionable, but I can't remember what the reasoning was...

That said, however, there is at least one reasonably credibly original late US car that still shows all red at the back.

In period photos of UK cars show all amber with horse in reflector at the front, and amber turn (outside) and red-with-reflector stop/brake at the rear. I also have one likely Australian-delivery in-period magazine article that shows the same there.

For countries other than the above (and Italy), I've never had any occasion to form an opinion.

Cheers (and hope you get a car someday; took me 30 years, so one never knows),
Alex

 

Thank you for your kind words Dave, but I’ve always been wary of the term/title “Expert”, especially in the fields which I have personal experience & familiarity with.

Way too often I’ve encountered individuals considered (by others) or portraying themselves as one, only to discover many of those individuals (some even on this very forum) having little to no actual/real first-hand experience or knowledge regarding the subject(s) they’re considered/portrayed to be an “expert” on and I just do not wish to be compared to or mistaken for such fakes, hence my dislike of using the term in reference to myself.

As for your original question regarding various configurations for Daytona parking, stop & turn signal lamp lenses and general assumptions or beliefs regarding U.S.-market specs, one has to keep in mind that some of the DOT mandated specs weren’t necessarily fully implemented until +/-1971, i.e. almost halfway through the entire production timeline, so examples imported new to U.S. prior to that may have had different configurations, etc …, but again, I wasn’t involved with any of this back in days these cars were produced & sold new, so my experience & knowledge regarding such details is rather limited and merely based only on what I’ve learned observing, reading or working on these cars.

And best of luck to you for finding a way to acquire/own a Daytona someday.
I've been fortunate for having had chances to restore a few & work on many, even held a minority ownership stake on one for a quite awhile and managed to get all that out of my system (In fact, despite how wonderful I think they are, I discovered them being little too impractical for my personal taste & type of driving/use I prefer).

 

Thank you, Timo!

A C/4 or a QM are financially realistic (at this point), and possibly more practical as you suggest. 330/365 GTC’s would be up there for me as well. But hard to beat the combination of beauty and muscle in the Daytona! Cheers.

 

Don't get me wrong, I do like all the models you mention above, along with Daytona, but my reference to its "impracticality" sort of applies to all of them, as they all are or feel almost too modern & refined for my personal taste & type of driving.

While I've never had an opportunity to drive, let alone extensively, any 250 GT cars and absolutely love the styling of most of them, I'm almost afraid to know if a SWB (my favorite of that era) would feel "too refined"(?) compared to something like a very early TDF, let alone 166/195/212 or 342/375 cars, which I think would be more aligned with my ever growing interest in very analog, old-school, no-comfort rides.

OTOH, none of the above really matters as I don't see any of them in my future road trips.