Hill Engineering balljoints seen loose. Normal? | FerrariChat
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Hill Engineering balljoints seen loose. Normal?

Discussion in '360/430' started by collegeboy, Apr 3, 2023.

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  1. collegeboy

    collegeboy Formula 3

    Aug 25, 2007
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    #1 collegeboy, Apr 3, 2023
    I pressed out the factory balljoints today on all 4 of my upper control arms, and while test fitting the new Hill Engineering ones, I notice that I don’t even need to use my press to get them in. I can literally wiggle them and push hard by hand and they slide right into the control arms. One of them even practically drops in. This seems loose to me. I did also notice that in the “NormalGuy” YouTube video, his dropped in as well. I know we use Hysol glue and the dust cover/C-clamps to complete the installation, and I guess the Hysol could fill in the gaps, but is that kind of looseness acceptable? Thanks for any advice.
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  2. Ricambi America

    Ricambi America F1 World Champ
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    #2 Ricambi America, Apr 3, 2023
    Sigh.

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  3. collegeboy

    collegeboy Formula 3

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    #3 collegeboy, Apr 3, 2023
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2023
    Why the sigh? I have those compensator rings new for this installation, but I don't see how they affect press fitment of the balljoints into the control arms. I did notice that in the NormalGuy (who you sponsor) video, his Hill Engineering balljoints dropped right in too, so perhaps it is normal? I genuinely don't know. That's why I'm here asking.
     
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  4. mike32

    mike32 F1 Veteran

    May 13, 2016
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    #4 mike32, Apr 3, 2023
    Yes they just drop in, when you bake them in the oven to cure the adhesive, you can cut the rubber off the old seals and use the circlips to position the ball joints in the arm.
    You can use a scrotch brite wheel that fits a dremel to remove the old adhesive and it gives a mirror finish
     
  5. collegeboy

    collegeboy Formula 3

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    #5 collegeboy, Apr 3, 2023
    .

    Amazing. I was expecting a tight fit like every other car I’ve worked on. I guess that’s why we use Hysol.

    So bake with old clips, then remove clips and install the new clips/boots? Got it.

    One other question. In the WSM, it calls for grease in the dust boot. Is that also needed for the HE units? If so, can I just use regular Lucas red balljoint grease?

    Thank you.
     
  6. mike32

    mike32 F1 Veteran

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    #6 mike32, Apr 3, 2023
    If they were tight the glue would not go in, when you put the glue on, be careful not to get on the curved surface , dont use too much. When they come out of the oven. 80 C for 40 mins i recall, put a screwdriver into the centre and move in all directions, wipe off any glue with kitchen roll.
    When cold spray with synthetic motorbike chain spray, goes on like wd 40 but dries like a grease. Do one side and allow to dry, then turn over and do other side. Keep going until you get good coating. Fit covers and poke the thin plastic tube down the seal and more spray . This stuff will not come off a motorbike chain in winter . Lot better than anything else as its thin enough to run down the curve.
     
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  7. one4torque

    one4torque F1 Veteran
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    #7 one4torque, Apr 3, 2023
    Thx for the write up and pics! Sigh :)))
     
  8. mike32

    mike32 F1 Veteran

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    #8 mike32, Apr 3, 2023
    Is that a hill engineering rear tie bar to replace the oem ne
     
  9. spider348

    spider348 Formula 3

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    #9 spider348, Apr 3, 2023
    Did you measure the bores? Ferrari has a specific bore diameter and tolerance. If in spec, fine and install.
     
  10. collegeboy

    collegeboy Formula 3

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    #10 collegeboy, Apr 3, 2023
    I did. All is within spec. Here is a picture of the inner diameter of the control arm. And then here is a picture of what the outer diameter of the ball joint came out to be. Please note that in the last picture the caliper is just resting on the table and the ball joint outer diameter is sitting above it.

    I guess the wiggling is normal.

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  11. collegeboy

    collegeboy Formula 3

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    #11 collegeboy, Apr 3, 2023
    Also, of note…..

    WSM says ID of control arm is 35mm +0.025
    My ID of control arm is 34.95mm

    WSM says balljoints are 34.936-34.975
    My HE joints are 34.92-34.93
    My factory balljoints were 34.94-34.98

    Yes, my HE balljoints are at the low end of the range, but my control arm holes are also 0.05mm smaller than spec.

    Its all within range. I guess loose is normal? That blue is good stuff! I’m just confused!

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  12. collegeboy

    collegeboy Formula 3

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    #12 collegeboy, Apr 3, 2023
  13. collegeboy

    collegeboy Formula 3

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    #13 collegeboy, Apr 3, 2023
    I have emailed Hill Engineering to hear their thoughts. The install is on pause.
     
  14. 74dino246gts

    74dino246gts Karting

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    #14 74dino246gts, Apr 3, 2023
    You might try using a high quality micrometer rather than a caliper as a check.
     
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  15. collegeboy

    collegeboy Formula 3

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    #15 collegeboy, Apr 4, 2023
    Definitely sound advice, but this is all I could find available at the local stores last minute. Either way, the factory ball joints that came out are in spec 34.93-34.97/8 and the HE ones are measuring 34.90-34.92 consistently. Arm ID is 35 so within spec. I’d definitely think the calipers wereoff if everything else wasn’t checking out perfect and if the HE units weren’t wobbly in the arm.
     
  16. mike32

    mike32 F1 Veteran

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    #16 mike32, Apr 4, 2023
    Those verniers are very accurate , any slight difference in the allowances will betaken up by the adhesive, the old ones were not loose ?
     
  17. collegeboy

    collegeboy Formula 3

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    #17 collegeboy, Apr 4, 2023
    Response from Hill. Great to have a definitive answer from them so we all know. All looks good then.

    The manufacturing tolerances of the OD of the hill part is 37.912/37.925 which is intentionally very slightly smaller than the OEM Ferrari part.

    Just to clarify a point - the ball joints are not meant to be a press fit but are supposed to be undersize to the bore in the arm to allow a small gap for the epoxy resin to retain the ball joint.

    The reason for the increased gap between on the outer of the ball joint and the hole in the arm in the Hill part is to allow for an improved film thickness of the Epoxy resin. (This was intentionally designed like this 15 years ago when we first started producing these)
     
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  18. firestarter_phil

    firestarter_phil Rookie

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    #18 firestarter_phil, Jul 21, 2025 at 2:28 PM

    One question I have about these compensator rings and I am sorry if this is a stupid question. What is the right way to install these compensator rings? I find that if I insert them before I insert the bolt then the bolt wants to crush the ring and if I install them around the shoulder of the bolt and then tighten, the ring gets left behind as the bolt tightens.

    I know I'm being daft on this one, but would love to understand the 'right' way if there is one.
     
  19. mike32

    mike32 F1 Veteran

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    #19 mike32, Jul 22, 2025 at 3:44 AM
    Its goes into the alloy casing first, then install the bolt . Be sure to start the bolt with a small allen key to be sure you start it right.
     
  20. 066/8

    066/8 Formula Junior

    Sep 29, 2023
    252
    #20 066/8, Jul 22, 2025 at 1:30 PM
    Just did those ... The bolts went in very smoothly. first couple of rotations only using a hex socket which i turned by hand. The Tutela grease seems to be unobtainium, so i went with Molykote BR2 which should be reasonably close in function.
     
  21. mike32

    mike32 F1 Veteran

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    #21 mike32, Jul 22, 2025 at 2:20 PM
    You would have been better using synthetic chain spray,
     
  22. 066/8

    066/8 Formula Junior

    Sep 29, 2023
    252
    #22 066/8, Jul 22, 2025 at 2:28 PM
    Are you refering to the boots of the ball joints or to the heads of the bolts which connect the control arms to the hub?
     

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