Ferrari F80

rumors say that F1 want to bring back V8 NA so F90 will be cool

 

As a counterexample, we can recall that Enzo Ferrari himself authorised the design and construction of a twin-cylinder engine for racing, which on paper could have provided some competitive advantages. The fierce desire to win was the only real driving force in Enzo's mind.
The supposed unconditional love for 12-cylinder engines is due to the fact that for a long time this configuration (V12, flat V12) was capable of the highest specific power. As a side effect, this architecture ensured a musical note that has become a stable feature of the Ferrari brand, particularly loved by owners and enthusiasts.

 

I would add that the engines Mr. Ferrari designed and had built were also often very reliable, so even though they had power, that alone was not enough to win races, they often just out lasted the competition.

 

In 1970 and 1971, when Porsche's 12 cyl 917 beat 12 cyl Ferraris at Le Mans:

1970
The Ferrari 512S, Ferrari's entry in 1970, struggled with reliability and fuel consumption, making it difficult to compete in the challenging endurance race. Despite being considered as fast as the competing Porsche 917, reliability issues plagued the Ferrari team. Of the four factory-entered 512s, three retired early due to various problems, including engine-related issues. Only two privateer 512S entries managed to be classified at the end of the race.

1971
Ferrari did not officially field a factory team in the 1971 Le Mans race, opting instead to focus on developing a new prototype, the 312 PB. A primary reason for this decision was concerns over the engine reliability of the 312 PB's Formula 1-derived engine over the 24-hour race distance. Privateer teams did enter the Ferrari 512M (the evolution of the 512S), and some showed competitive performance, even achieving pole position at times. However, despite improvements in the 512M's engine and aerodynamics, it still faced reliability challenges, as evidenced by a car needing an engine change after qualifying due to low oil pressure. In essence, while Ferrari's cars could be fast, their Achilles' heel in both 1970 and 1971 at Le Mans was their lack of consistent engine reliability, which ultimately prevented them from achieving overall victory against rivals like Porsche.

 

Of all the Ferraris, the SF90 is one that excites me least in terms of design, and last year at the Ferrari museum in Maranello, I observed it for a good period of time side by side with the LaFerrari and compared them—the difference is like night and day. It doesn't even seem like they were both penned by the same man. But I have to admit that the SF90 has at least one virtue: it's fast. In 2020, during a small gathering of Ferraris on a circuit, an SF90 stopped between an 812 SF and the F12B I was driving and the muted and unsexy sound of its engine, when compared to the other two cars, almost embarrassed the owner.

 

Also embarrassing to the owner is when it bricks.

 

The owner told you he was almost embarrassed? But not quite?

But none sound as good as the original GTO, so there is that….

 

The owner is an elderly lady who owns other Ferraris, two of them V12s. Although she didn't say anything, her face told the truth.
This moment of glory for the 812 SF and the F12B was short-lived; on the circuit, the SF90 took revenge and, without apparently pushing too hard, gave the V12s no chance.

 

What is elderly?

 

She is the same age as Michele Muton

 

Last week near Montale Rangone, Italy.

Marcel Massini

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Never heard of that before. The first Ferrari V12 was the Colombo engine in the 125S, which was designed from the beginning as a small V12.

 

I have never had an old V12. The story passed down from my grandfather is that neither he nor some good mechanics could keep the darn thing running good for very long and he was glad to get rid of it. I guess those webers could be a mess to deal with. Every time I think I would love to have something like a 330, I remember that story and the fact that I am no ace mechanic.

 

74 is not elderly when you’re 64. Sonny boy.

 

Hahaha! Isn’t that the truth!

 

Aside from the official times at Fiorano, Ferrari is always very averse to publishing lap times for its road-legal models. This is probably why, during the F80 tests at Misano, Ferrari took precautions to avoid people recording lap times. However, the French publication Motor Sport Magazine published a video, below, titled "Embark on a lap of the Misano track in the Ferrari F80." In thevideo, there's a complete lap of the F80, which allows us to get an approximate idea of the lap time for this driver, whose name I don't know but who doesn’t seem to be a jerk. At 3 seconds into the video (Picture 1 below), the F80 has the beginning of yhe pit lane buildings to its left, and at 1:40 minutes (Picture 2 below), at the end of the lap, it's slightly before the beginning of the pit lane buildings. This translates to a time of approximately 1:38 but in the hands of a top race driver this time would certainly be lower, although perhaps not enough to beat the 1:32 of the Ferrari 296 GT3 at Misano.






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Given that the F80 has All Wheel Drive and can torque vector and put the power down through all 4 wheels, compared to the RWD of the 296 GT3. It should be easier to handle for better times. Especially true given the active cornering. Also, the F80 HP is 1200, and the GT3 is roughly half, near 600. Assuming 3600lbs curb for the F80, and 3000 lbs for the GT3, that means approximately .33 HP/lb for the F80 vs .2 HP/lb for the GT3. Given the 4WD & torque vectoring, and performance-weight lead, I could see it achieving better times than the GT3.

But, given that GT3 has optimized cornering and braking for racing, I could see it winning on technical tracks that have lots of turns. The edge could go to the F80 on fast tracks with turns linking predominantly high-speed sections. This is just a stream of thought here, so comments appreciated.

 

Even though the technology has improved significantly on road tyres, the slicks on the GT3 should also provide a dramatic advantage. I remember that back in the days, a 355 Challenge (which was very close to a standard 355, except for the slick tyres) was lapping Fiorano faster than an F50.
The F80 will certainly be slower in the corners, and in the straights it may lose what it gains at the beginning (with better acceleration) in the end, because it needs to brake earlier.
Still, I guess there are probably some specific tracks where the F80 could be faster.

 

You are very right as I forgot about tires.

I remember being told that my 488 Challenge Evo was a 1min 15.5 second car at Fiorano. But I am not certain whether that was the Evo config. After my 488C was Evo'd, it was definitely quicker/faster. Much better handling and downforrce. The 458 Challenge was a 1:16.5 car, so I could believe the 488C Evo was even 1:15. It was a blast to drive. The race slicks we were on made a huge difference.

 

considering the 23 year old 360 gt2 is fast around Fiorano, i'd expect a 296 gt3 to be faster around most tracks also

 

* 360 gt2 is faster than the f80 around Fiorano

 

yes you are correct. I went and found different track data and it shows significant lap time advantage for the 296GT3 compared to the 360 GTC/GT2. I couldn’t find a Fiorano lap time for the 360 GTC/GT2. But at other tracks, there were multiple seconds of lead for the 296 GT3.

 

coming back to tires, I wonder what a lightly race prepped F80 could involving slicks, etc.

 

Nothing to do with a regular 355, the modifications in terms of suspension and braking (F40 LM, the best I've seen) were those of a real racing car.

 

The F80 uses the Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2 R K1, a semi-slick tire. According to an old rule of thumb, the difference in lap time between a car with slicks and semi-slicks can be as much as 2 seconds per minute. The F80 Fiorano lap time of 1:15.30 I presume was achieved with the Cup 2 R semi-slicks. Using slicks this lap time could easily go down to 1:13.30 which shows the difference the tires can make.