SF90 (need to create a price buzz)

I take it you own one?

 

They are incredibly well performing cars. However with each subsequent generation of cars, the successor performs better, making the predecessor inferior in that regard. While the SF90 is one of the best performing cars out there right now, in 10 years it won't be. It's also not exactly exclusive. The longevity of hybrids is also a serious concern.

Aside from performance, which won't be a major selling point as time goes on, what do you feel makes the SF90 a 7 figure car?

Don't get me wrong, it's an amazing car that has done some amazing things, however I don't see it being a viable long term investment

 

Lol. Good luck with that!! I think it is a safe bet that the values only continue to go down. When the replacement comes out the values will decrease even further. To add to the 10 year statement, this, or any of the current cars, will not be very memorable or collectible. With that being said, who cares, enjoy the heck out of it as no one knows what tomorrow will bring.

 

Enjoy your cars, life’s short and YOLO, aside of very select few cars are not an investment grade asset, don’t buy what you can’t afford to lose and if you have to constantly carry the stress of a loss in the back of your mind that’s not a way to live, if that’s the case I suggest not to buy these cars, stay away from them.

 

I have said this before, but the real cost of the SF90 (and all high end cars for that matter) is the opportunity cost of not being fully invested. Imagine for a moment that you paid $900,000 for a SF90 in 2020 rather than having invested the same sum in QQQ. The car would be worth $400,000 today, and the QQQ would be worth $1,971,000. The depreciation cost $500,000, but the missed appreciation cost $1,071,000.

 

Problem is all these hybrids with turbos are becoming a commodity experience, nothing special, the 296 pre-owned market is also selling poorly even with its much lower price point (part of which attributable to its notable reduction of in-cabin size, tall guys do not fit). To me, the hybrid experience is simply boring along with a huge amount of complexity to achieve that sameness. Not to mention other distractions such as xbox-like dash, haptics, sitting on/near a source of radiation that is sufficient to block AM radio waves and more:
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8914635/

And, have you noticed the focus is moving away from Ferrari's skills as a "thermal" engine builder and more to an "cobbler" of various technologies (high-voltage batteries, wheel and flywheel electric motors), hybrid components (inverter/wiring harnesses, etc), none of which Ferrari actually makes. The experience of what makes a Ferrari a Ferrari is shifting focus to "hybrid warranty concerns" and "associated failures" of it and its electronic controls. To me, this also dilutes the "Ferrari experience".

No thanks.

 

Starting with the F80 they make their own electric motors and let 's not forget that the most important part (the ICE) is still a Ferrari engine! I don't see how that is boring...

 

You may feel that the small displacement turbo engines are just as exciting as the screaming NA engines of the past, however most of us here do not share that sentiment.

 

True.

But that is true for most hobby/passion/toy purchases. The more expensive the purchase, the more the loss in actual dollars. If we all looked at these through that lense, there would be little to no luxury/performance products ever sold.


…Except maybe watches and rare paintings.




…And then one has to wonder why those things have value to the buyers which is a whole ‘nother fun topic!

 

The type of aspiration has nothing to do with the hybridisation. Ferrari started using turbocharged engines in its mid-engined cars long before adding the hybrid element.

 

Perfectly said, with a lot of realism !

 

As one who has enjoyed all three of my hybrid Ferrari cars, I feel they are the deal of the century in both performance and aesthetics. I just recently pulled the trigger on a 4th Hybrid car as well but this time a McLaren Artura for daily driving duty.

Anyone insinuating the driving of these vehicles is somehow boring clearly doesn't drive them in the same manner I have been enjoying mine.

My experience:
296 for me was wonderful car that drove equally as well as my 992 GT3 both on track and off.
SF90 non-AF spec picked up for where my 296 left off in precision, speed and road presence.
SF90 AF car again moves the needle in a positive manner for sensation of speed, cornering ability (after a more aggressive alignment) and lets not forget that beautiful carbon rear fixed wing.

Hybrid supercars are the future IMO. They're just that good.

 

I agree, love all my hybrids, everyone focuses on what’s “under the hood” rather than on how these cars drive, who cares how the steak/meal is made if it tastes incredible when you eat it; if you listen and read reviews from genuine owners the overwhelming majority, myself included, absolutely love their cars, statistically it makes those cars a success, maybe not a financial success but that’s a result of a myriad of other factors internal and external also not one of the things a car manufacturer is responsible or even focusing on, yes it would be ideal for everyone that the values remain strong but that can not be engineered into the product, that’s at the mercy of the market.

Another thing I don’t get about the professional ragers, there are literally thousands of the older models they love some with no or very little miles on them, those cars are there and they will still be there at least in our life time so you aren’t really missing on anything, go buy and drive what you enjoy, if the new stuff isn’t your flavour don’t need to worry about it go buy whatever you like there are so many options out there.

 

Either we talk about the same brand and everything that composes it, or we talk about two different brands and do as you say... Personally, and I say this seriously, I think that with the production of the first hybrid consumable cars, they should have modified the badge, with a yellow background for non-hybrid cars, as usual, and a green background for those with hybridization, this would have been clearer for everyone and in line with the reality of the facts... But this is inconceivable for marketing, which capitalizes on the badge as it would have been bad for sales !

 

Personally I'm not against the hybrid solution, Ferrari managed a good integration (when it works) and it provides stellar performances.
I just wonder why they were apparently unable to limit the complexity to something still under control (maybe it's the price to pay to get the amazing results).
The Toyota Prius was introduced more than 25 years ago and there are less horror stories of reliability issues than with the SF90 and 296.

 

I don't think this would work out as you think... the reviewers would stack them up against each other ("yellow" vs "green") and the greens would win over and over. It might diminish the brand in a different way than you posit...

 

Using that logic nobody since 2020 should have bought anything whether it be any car, house, boat etc and should have just owned the qqq. What I find really funny is that alot of people posting on here don't own a Ferrari. if you are worrying about the "opportunity cost" of buying a Ferrari versus owning the QQQ, you should not own a ferrari and definately can't afford it!

 

They are. It takes time for more people to try, I am on my 4th Hybrid. For example in SF90 section really the negative come from same 5 people or so. Kinda odd as they spend time here regularly. They either never tried, highly interested, waiting for price to come down like me at one time, or just have different preferences. It would be preferable to have more constructive information for owners, such as tips, mods, or troubleshooting advice. Most owners don't post, and positive experiences are often overshadowed

As far as review goes, I was perspective buyer at one time so I did extensive research, pretty much watched all available reviews, eventually got one.

As far as I know, Shemee150, Davidlee, Exotic car hacks, gentleman garage, Tomi Auto, Dobre Cars, Supercar Advocate, and most of reviews are highly favorable including my own with exception of Chris Harris and Hamilton Collection.

Performance is pretty important, It is pretty darn remarkable for a car that came out 4 years before Reveulto and out perform it. I have not driven Reveulto yet, I bet I will love it. Another example 458 while great and magical in certain ways, it was not even on par with MP4-12C performance. 488 and F8 is so much superior in handling and performance.

Had 5 NSX, 3 NC1s, I still like NC1s a lot especially now Ktuner is available, even burble and overrun can be adjusted via Ktuner handheld over OBDII port. SF90's hybrid system is not that complex, it is insanely seemless and smooth in hybrid mode. Far superior than hybrid NSX, which I had 3. NSX hybrid is much more sensitive, no true full ev mode, give slight gas pedal, ICE kicks in, transition while smooth, not seemless like SF90 and SF90 has true EV mode where ICE will not kick in even if you floor the pedal. Even in EV mode it can get up to speed, actually not terribly weak when it is running on just 217 HP ev only. I drive mostly in qualifying/sport. The car has quad personality, I won't even dare drive in CT off or ESC off.

For years NC1 owners got a lot of hate from NA1/NA2 owners, a lot of NA1/NA2 owners eventually ended up getting one and sentiment kinda turned. Took a few years. For example, this is someone I least expected to pick up a hybrid NSX as he like stuff that is really really raw:

 

Where I live if the car is electric or hybrid we need to attach a tiny EV sticker on the registration plates, does that satisfy your OCD?

 

It was humorous,even if there are already two camps ! but it reflects reality because the brand, regardless of Race, is diminished ... no one dreams of TT and Hybrids in the second-hand market.

 

Hybrid Ferraris (and soon to be Lambo IMO) have been an important affordability tool for those on the fence about the platforms. Why did Ferrari make so many 296 and SF90 cars? IMO it's very obvious, to get someone to reach for a F-Car rather than another 911 variant, Aston Martin, McLaren, etc...

I almost snagged a new Aston Vantage for a daily but opted for a Artura instead. Why? Because it was just that affordable. Same reason I bought a second used SF90 rather than order a new Temerario. The affordability factor just made it make sense to me.

 

Not sure that was Ferrari's goal. That was their intent with the Roma, which by the way is a great car for daily, but don't think they thought the sf90 or even 296 was going to lose this much value this fast.