Greetings, all. This is my first foray into this section of the park. I have been offered this car. Wondering if anyone here knows the car and of course what the unvarnished opinions of it may be. I have always loved the Dino, but certainly don’t want to make a foolish, emotional purchase. I have seen the car and it has clearly been restored, at least cosmetically, to a very high standard. Thanks! https://www.pcarmarket.com/auction/marketplace-1971-ferrari-dino-246-gt/
1971 Early E series Fully restored to original specifications is clearly misleading imho. Lots wrong with it cosmetically. tools are completely wrong poss 308/328. Binder is wrong for books. Steering wheel, excessive exhaust rust, tyres out of date, wrong door glove box (both side) front clip looks wrong to me for a e series, wrong wipersetc etc Photos dont reveal all unfortunately but get the chassis and history details checked by Mathias Bartz (germandino on here) Dont believe all the surplus sales crap that goes with it.
What is your expectation with this one - instant Concours winning ? Not possible Since GT did so badly at Monterey I guess probably $400k depending on condition and this seller bought at $500k 2 years ago so big price conflict for you As Tony's points captured, the cosmetics of this car are confusing. On one hand very nice quality work, oem hose clamps etc, but then many bad choices or just not there, like work just stop? A quick look - bonnet emergency pulls missing in gas filler well, driver's underdash, the trunk - photo 109 shows rear brake caliper may be upsided down on wrong side of car ! - many, many wrong fasteners; radiator strap, gutter bumpers, brake fluid door, engine bulkhead cross , ++more that concours judge easily sees - SP1 missing from spare tire panel bulkhead edge - wrong voltage regulator - center dash switches not Mouse ears - $teering wheel, magnet door glove box - alternator fusebox missing - photo 95 attaches the fuel line DIRECTLY to high tension voltage wire - mama mia ! - engine temperature sender moved to rear bank ? - photo 91, 97 shows engine curl tab broken off/discarded - trunk license plate light button contact missing - trunk ignition cover - ignition system is bosch - inner fender panel is attached with wrong fasteners and no SP1 - more... Many choices are not of the professional restoration shop style .
OK, fantastic! This is exactly what I’m after. I have ZERO experience with Ferraris of this age. As for my expectations - no concourse winning for me. My interest is ALWAYS the drive and aesthetics, and stable value has become something I’m fairly used to and have started hating new cars as a result (ok, I also just like more analog cars ). I do enjoy the social side of things, C&C, some shows, etc. Nothing serious. Now - that does NOT mean I wouldn’t be interested in making it correct for my own OCD. My understanding is that the pricing is pretty flexible. Am I out of line to assume a fair price for this one would be in the mid-high 3’s? That was my initial feeling. What does the brain trust think it would take in dollars and time to get it straight?
XCLNT - those are great priorities. 1) Engine - Confirm compression numbers (they r great) 2) Trans - drive it and when cold pay attention to 2nd gear shift for any grind 3) Rust - look behind rear wheel at arch - bottom of curved panel will be the metal sheet sandwich of 2 sheet pieces - tap to hear any rust 4) watch Ammeter for any flicker or violent movement for truth of e-system health (videos never showed) all these others are super small things that will just make you fall in love with it more as you improve them. Pricing seems to have plateau as bank money became less available. When the money supply loosens I believe these will jump and you are smart to get a good one now IMHO
Excellent points, will do. Honestly, one of my biggest reservations is lack of support for service and, God forbid, body work if needed. I’d hate to have to send the thing halfway across the country or more because some boob opens a door on it. What’s the general consensus re: the best shops in the USA for such a car? Is Competitzione in MD well-versed in Dino? They would likely be the closest of the well-regarded shops (I’m in Southeastern VA).
Hello Chupacabra, we have that in our local folklore... scare the kids to death (small ones of course ) The car in question is....SOLD, unless you bought it Your biggest problem is not buying, it is restoring, and your involvement, and how much are you willing to be involved. Then, take a number(s) and talk to the 'usual suspects', then bite the bullet, and go for it. Keep us updated by all means, Dinoland is the best! Regards, Alberto
Haha, thanks The car is for sale again by a dealer near me. It is his personal car - he won the PCAR auction. Unless it sold again since yesterday I guess my big questions then are 1) why on earth am I restoring a car that has been represented (not by current owner, mind you) as fully restored by one of the best shops in the world and 2) seeing how that appears to not be the full story, what would it cost to get it there should I decide to and what is a fair price for it as it sits? The results I have been able to locate for comps are sort of all over the place, but I would say average out to high $300s. Unfortunately, my limited Dino acumen prevents me from properly interpreting the results relative to each example.
It really depends on what type of car YOU want, i.e quality. I would also question "one of the best shops in the world" going by the restoration condition of that car, they clearly have limited knowledge of the Dino. I am no expert but can see many faults. $200K meaningless really and i doubt it unless they were charging silly hourly rates !! Looks a nice paint job from the photos but again the black shut lines are wrong. As others have said, there is a lot wrong with the car and really depends on how fickle you are, concours it is not. . Small things like the missing passenger carpet pad is a big school boy error. There a numerous details that need correcting and simple fixes once you get the correct parts, sourcing some can be expensive and problematic but if you can do the research and work on it yourself then it will decrease the $$$. The black lower waistline detail is wrong and I suspect the front clip is wrong for the car which can be very (eye watering) expensive to fix. The clamps used on the water pipes before they enter the chassis are wrong imo, if not then i would certainly change then for something better. As Timo pointed out the attachement of the HT leads to the return fuel pipe is not ideal possibly because the grommet bracket is missing. All these issues would drive me nuts and the more you do the more you will uncover. Still correcting some things on my car 27 years later!! Regards Tony
The front clip is correct for an early E series Dino Tony. It is missing the cold weather cover for the two central intakes in the photo's so I'd check to see if that panel is still with the car.
This is all great, I really appreciate the feedback, all!! I AM fickle, but at the end of the day I want a car that is mechanically sound that I can enjoy and hopefully will not lose a bag of money on. I realize that last part depends upon getting it at an appropriate price. I don’t mind improving things over time at all; in fact that sounds kind of appealing in a way. The limited availability of parts, which is already vexing with my 575, doesn’t…but that’s just kind of the way of things with these cars.
Mine was missing when I acquired my M-series in 2010, but Superformance has/had the part, as you probably already know.
You are on the right track imho, it will be a labour of love but enjoyable, get the basic car thats in good condition, Body, chassis, engine / gearbox and no major parts missing. Rust is a big factor and 54 years of "potential" bodging. One thing i experienced with my car was that you improved one thing and it highlighted something else that didnt actually need doing but you had to. Bit like renewing one section of wallpaper and leaving the rest!!! Plenty of guys on here to help you on your journey. Best Tony PS i did notice the battery undertray and deflector plate is missing, make sure thats your first job as the hot air from the radiator will fry the battery in a very short time.
Everything mentioned here is relatively minor. It looks like a nice car to me. What kind of hose clamps the car has should not affect your decision in buying it. I have the original hose clamps for my car in plastic bags and opted to put something newer to make sure my hoses don’t fall off while driving spiritedly. As long as the car is numbers matching, has a strong engine which those numbers indicate, the gearbox works well, and doesn’t have rust issues I’d go for it. All the minor concourse items can be remedied over time if you desire. TonyL and many people here have helped me over the past eight years of my personal ownership and I’m sure will join me in helping you.
Happy to help. Somebody paid $500,000 for a non-matching numbers car ? if that’s the case, I’d go find another one that’s matching, personally
According to what I was just told… A big deal, but maybe not for a full-disclosure driver example…? I can’t help what someone else paid, but if they’re willing to take that into account, I may still have some interest
Are the numbers correct? Matching can be a clever word Clearly the engine and transaxel were made in the same foundary but oddly have different numbers as is normal. Body numbers are also a complete different series I do see more things Brake calipers upside down and on the wrong side Missing the engine breather hose who ever restaured this may not know the Dino - there r many tasks for the next one
That I do not know…what I have so far is “incorrect chassis # stamping and non matching engine/gearbox” Being a neophyte, that sounds scary to me, but you indicate perhaps not so abnormal?
be careful.... restamped car... chassis no. stamping non authentic.... Image Unavailable, Please Login
